To not understand how housewives of yesteryear could afford to stay home but being a SAHM is a lifestyle choice now?

[PeachyParisian]

Am I missing something really obvious? Or is it just a case of the cost of living rising and our standards of living increasing too? How could everyone manage to get by on just one wage?
I understand that work wasn't really an option for most women but traditionally families got by on one wage didn't they? When did that stop being possible for so many?

my mum was a sahm as she wasn't allowed to work due to ss.
She was active in the community when dad was at home though.
I think they just made do and mend tbh. None of the parents of my friends at school had a duel income, they were all sahp or worked very few hours, for pin money.
You used to be able to live just about on one decent wage.
This was mid sixties/mid seventies.
Most families were poor, much poorer than today and there was very little benefit, just that for unemployed.
If you were unemployed and male/ not sahm you were sneered upon because there was plenty of work to go around until Thatcher came in.
You could walk out of one job straight into another before this, so obviously unemployed didn't want to work.
no support for families at all, no tc, but of course universal FA.

Not sure if this has been said yet but it was extremely hard for women to get mortgages, and a married woman's income certainly wouldn't have been taken into account (at least when my parent's married in the early 60's). It would have been based solely on the husband's income.

Obviously this was vastly unfair but the end result was that once the woman's income could be included then more people started using two incomes to afford the best house they could and it became the norm. Now most families can simply not afford the mortgage on a very average home on one income.

I think it would have been better if the law had been changed to say mortgages could only be based on one income but took gender out of the equation.

And obviously agree with everyone else that life was a lot less materialistic then. You didn't have what you couldn't afford and when my parents married they had no furniture at all except a mattress and 2 camping chairs! They built this up over many years. Now people wouldn't dream of not fully furnishing their first home. Our whole economy is now based on the marketing of non essentials, making us feel inadequate if we don't have a whole array of stuff, plus holidays, salon haircuts, endless activities for the kids. My parents' minds boggled at our lives and the dominance of 'want' over 'need'.

Bowlby et al came along to guilt-trip women who'd rather be out working into staying at home to be Proper Mothers

Interesting summary of Bowlby's work.

It wasn't all he did, obviously. But a lot of women in the 1960s - my mothers' generation - felt madly guilt-tripped by it. And curbed their desire to work outside the home accordingly.

apologies for rogue apostrophe; I do not have two female parents.

But huge numbers are still having some time as SAHP and not all have huge incomes. Most mums I know had a period off ranging from short to long on tiny up to quite healthy household income.

Many also only work 2 days a week or just a couple of shifts so are still sahp parents for most of the week.

Some huge over generalisations on this thread.< whispers> Not all of us live in London with London mortgages to pay.

My great grandmother worked. My grandmother worked (nanny in India before marriage) and when her husband died at work after a year of marriage and a very very tiny baby she obviously had to carry on working. My father's aunts all worked (two had a shop and one moved to London and became a nursing sister). I've worked full time for 30 years with 5 children. Even if go back to the 1800s when everyone in our families seems to have lived on the land they were working on the land whether male or female.

it is absolutely wonderful today that women work. It is one the best changes. One big reason is contraception too. My grandfather was one of 12. On my mother's side of the family her grandmother had 16 children. Contraception changed that and improved the lives of many women who adore their legal rights and right to work and out earning men and having a successful career rather than being at home. Lucky women of today compared with those of the past.

In some professions - teaching / civil service women left work upon marriage. I know of this occurring during the 1960s. Childcare as we know it today ( nurseries in particular) were virtually unheard of ( in Scotland) until at least the 1980s and didn't do full time hours.

My mother got a job in the NHS shortly after getting married. One of the questions at interview was "when was your last period" to ascertain whether she was pregnant.

Yes my mum also had to ask permission from her work to come back after she got married.

It wasn't all he did, obviously. But a lot of women in the 1960s - my mothers' generation - felt madly guilt-tripped by it. And curbed their desire to work outside the home accordingly.

His work was about attachment and healthy psychological development, not mothers per se. It's a great shame the lessons could not have been taken up and properly applied to parents on an either/or basis. Perhaps if they had, we would all have better work/life balance now.

There was no childcare at all when I was little, not even playgroups before school and then you didn't start until you were 5.
If a woman was working it often looked bad on her dh as though he couldn't support his family.
We hear a lot about 1950's husbands not allowing their dw to work, this is partly the reason, they didn't want to lose face in the community.

chillybits Tue 17-Feb-15 17:23:37

Brilliant posts, you reminded an Aunt said even for simple things like fitting a washing machine they had to talk to the man of the house.

So sexist and still in recent past.

Has anyone mentioned the lower school leaving age and the fact that children often stayed at home until they married and were expected to make a good contribution to household expenses ?

There definitely was childcare when I was little (1970s Ireland) because I had it, but it was usually a childminder rather than organized nursery type arrangements.

[random aside] We all loved our childminder, I ended up bringing her son to my school graduation dance, I have cuttings from her grape vines in my garden, and her daughter (a LLL leader) helped me with some difficulties breastfeeding my eldest.

I agree it's increased housing costs AND much, much higher expectations of "normal" living costs.

I can't envision housing costs doing anything other than going up in ever greater proportion on income. We are quite densly populated by comparison to other countries and the population is growing = less housing available , therefore higher prices. We could build more houses of course - but there will always be a limit, unlike the population growth.

I was born in 1958 and the difference in peoples expectations is astounding. As someone else posted, getting a new coat was a real event, and it was meant to last years. I was the third daughter and therefore NEVER had a brand new school uniform - I had the hand me downs of my two elder sisters.
Same with shoes - if a child gre out of them, they were passed down to the next. They were re-soled and heels repaired, and new shoes only bought as a very last resort. (In fact I recall putting cardbord inside my shoes for a while, as we couldn't afford new shoes or repairs).

Food was bought each day and cooked from scratch. Hardly anything in fridge (milk, cheese and that day's meat). Sweets were a rare treat, as was pop (usually only at Xmas).

Looking back my parents probably spent the equivalent of £20 on each of us at Xmas - there were 5 of us.

Housing, and principally the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Act 1988 ultimately and gradually leading to less protected tenancies and open market rents, which have increased substantially the value of housing and which feed into higher house prices for owner occupiers.

I know we haven't yet got to the stage of true equality of income and career expectations, but broadly we do experience equal pay for equal work. My line of work is treated as a profession, has become more qualified, and standard pay agreements mean that I am paid fairly alongside my male colleagues. If I was still in an era of large discrepancies in pay, I could not afford to be a working parent. This improves the accessibility, and benefits of middle class women to work.

I agree that factors like mortgages being based on two incomes affecting property prices, increasing "necessities" such as Internet access (for many, it can be a necessity for working/ job seking). Luxuries have become cheap and disposable, yet basics have increased significantly compared to incomes due to global competition for resources. Private sector ownership (shareholder dividends) and demands for quality and investment have also pushed up costs for services and utilities.

My grandma is 84 and she said most women worked when they we're married, only wealthy families had wives who stayed at home, she had six kids and the older two had to look after the younger four when my nan had to go to work. They also had a lot less stuff and wore loads of hand me downs, no car, no heating other than a fire, no holiday, very few Xmas gifts, thread bare carpet, shared bedrooms, etc

In 1965 the personal tax allowance meant than nobody on less than average wages paid tax (todays equivalent is around £20k)

House prices were 2.5 average wages - so a married man could pay that mortgage out of his own wages

Now, taxes hit all but the very lowest paid and average house prices are 8 times average wages

Food is actually much CHEAPER than it was 40 years ago - hence why so many people now eat too much.

All the women in my family worked and there was childcare but it was usually family or "Aunties"
There was a small preschool at the end of our road and I went 3 mornings a week.
All women worked -either in schools or as shop assistants, cleaners, music teachers etc
I would go to "Auntie Nancys" house and she had cake
My mum and auntie worked at the school I went to so no need for CC.
If I was ill I would stay home alone with Ribena and the cat for company
We loved it and everyone looked after each other. Mind you often we would just go out to play (age 10) with a jam sarnie and be told to come home at teatime.

Its partly housing costs but also lifestyle, when I was 5 (1973) my dad was electrical engineerjust under average wage at time, mortgage was 3x salary but food was higher proportion of take home pay. My parents did not have bills we take for granted broadband, phone, sky they did not eat out ice creams coffee and cake, chips were a rare treat, holiday was 1-2 weeks self catering in Dorset, Bournemouth etc I don't think childcare widely available So I think most women were sahm until youngest in school at least.
People generally managed with less and expected stuff to last, if it broke it was repaired, clothes were mended, people never expected to replace stuff like tables wardrobes etc.
As a child I had far fewer clothes and toys than DD has

Most of my dads wages went on housing heating food and petrol to go to work , there was little disposable income it was saved carefully for annual holiday Christmas birthdays and clothes, apart from wellies plimsolls we wore same shoes for school weekends church parties

Many jobs, probably mainly in the countryside, came with a house. Farm workers, gardeners etc

"When did that stop being possible for so many?"

When it became normal to have two cars, foreign holidays, treat food for every meal, TVs in every room, a fitted kitchen which is replaced if it's even slightly non-perfect, fitted carpets, more than one pair of shoes...

We had a "special" cereal that we were only allowed at the weekends because it was more expensive than cornflakes. We had central heating, but the thermostat was set at 16 downstairs and the radiators were turned off upstairs. We never ever stayed in a hotel or went on a plane as a family - holidays were camping in Scotland.

Compared to a lot of people, we were well off, and I had two working parents.