To think that if the post office taxes your old car

[montysma1]

And not your new car as asked at the counter then this is THEIR mistake and not yours?

Husband presented all documents for new car, also had v5 for old car in case this was needed, as he wasnt sure how the new discless system works.
The branch unknown to us, because you have no tax disc actually taxed the old car , which was still taxed ar the time, and not the new car.
Today, after 3 months we have 3 £60 fines as he has been driving around untaxed.
£210 tax charged on old car
£160 to very hurriedly tax the new car(cheaper)
£180 In fines
£550 In total spent.
We will get some but not all of the £210 tax on the old car back...
Post office says this is OUR mistake. Their employee does not pay attention to what is asked, presses send without final check and this is our fault? We would normally do this online but the system wouldnt let him for some reason so he had to use the post office.
Post office complaints team not helping, dvla not interested. No higher body to appeal to......Be aware in the absence of a tax disk, you have no idea whats been done and no protection in the event of a mistake.
Just need a rant.

You don't believe it? How would you know what he knows?
I didn't know you could check on line either.....I have never had call to check because up till now you have been handed a Tax Disk which displays what you need to know.

I have no idea whether the DVLA let's you tax online on the day of purchase (I am sure nomana knows as she is an expert) however the system would not let him tax on line in this instance hence the visit to the post office, with the MOT and emission documents that the web site told him to take for the new car. He did not take any such documents for the old car.

The counter assistant then taxed a vehicle for which mot/emmission documents had not been provided and produced only a switch receipt.
But yeah, sure, it was all my husband's mistake.

He didn't take the insurance documents like you said way up there, then ^^?

Monty, Read me back a bit more carefully. I have said that the PO employee made an error. But that this does not remove from your DH the legal obligation to keep his vehicle legal.

The rest is just me responding to your continued attempts to absolve your DH as though he has been the completely innocent dupe in all of this.

I am no expert, as I said, I just looked at the webpage, heard the adverts on television and radio. Used a bit of common sense, and Googled it!

Op I didn't know you could check online whether a car is taxed .

I also am going against popular opinion here and saying I believe the post office employee is at fault . We tax our cars once or twice a year , they do it on a daily basis they must know how it works with all sorts of ownership situations .

When your dh explained what he wanted and told her what he had , she should have been able to do it no bother for him .

Op I know it's a bit extreme but I'd be tempted to go to citizens advice they may be able to help you appeal the fines . I'd be raging

He had no reason to suspect that his vehicle was not legal. He presented appropriate documentation to a post office professional, he asked to tax the car, He paid to tax the car. He made every effort to be legal. He complied with DVLA web site instructions.
The DVLA web page does not say, "having presented documents and paid for road tax, members of the public must assume that the post office has taxed the wrong car and act accordingly"
I would be interested to know how many people are aware that you can check tax on line I wasn't. And more how many go straight home to check that the post office has taxed them when they have paid for them to do so.
Indeed how many people double check every month that the bank has sent a debict debit on time, that an over the phone or over the counter bill has been paid. I certainly haven't time to double check every transaction I undertake through a third party. Most people make the assumption that the person who does the job every day does it right because it's their job.

I'm going to go against the grain... this new system only started in October, OPs husband seems to have paid this visit to PO in December in the middle of the Christmas rush, and clearly there's been an error by the post office assistant. Both Post Office and DVLA seem to be passing the buck, OP has clearly stated several times that the receipt her H was issued doesn't show the reg of the car to which it refers.

I would have expected Post Office staff to be up to speed with new tax systems, any MNetters who work behind the PO counters? Did you get training with this when it changed?

Even now the post office required and their complaints section are saying that there is no requirement to present the mot and emissions certificate to tax post office. The DVLA web page states quite clearly that you must present these docs. Which is what he did. For his new car only.

So either the DVLA is placing the wrong information on its web site or the post office are not acting in accordance with the new DVLA regulations.

You wouldn't have a reduced pollution certificate if you were taxing a car!
Why didn't he query the amount he paid? Surely he knew the new car was £160 to tax, so when she asked for £210 why did he pay it?
I think you are absolutely mad not to check your direct debits, if your car insurance hasn't gone out you're not insured, ditto house insurance. How else do you know that the ones you've cancelled are not being claimed any more?

If I pay a bill over the phone I always ask for a reference number, the name of the person who took the call, the date and time and write it on the bill. IF something goes awry, I can phone them back with all the details.

I think YANBU and would hope that some recompense could be offered by the PO. It was their mistake.
And I also do not believe that many people log on and check things every time an operator carries out a transaction for them. Not at all.

One more time...

Yes, the PO employee made a mistake, a complaint would be in order however that does not change the fact that the driver and the owner of every car on the road is held legally responsible to make sure a car is roadworthy, including tax.

It is not impossible to check, there was a long advert campaign about the changes, the details are easily found with Google. The DVLA won't really be all that interested in 'he said, she said' but it is not impossible that, with a coherent explanation, they will refund any of the fines.

However, in law, the fault has always been with OPs DH. Which is why fines were levied.

I could feel sympathetic is it weren't for the continued 'PO professional' comments intended to absolve her DH. That 'professional' is a shop assistant paid less than £7 an hour - no, not an expert, I just went and had a look

henderson-group.erecruit.co.uk/erecruit/job/details.do?jobId=3101

RealHouseWife... they are more likely to now they don't have the reassurance of a tax disc!

I agree that, ultimately, your DH was responsible for error checking before he left. HOWEVER - the PO worker obviously didn't check the insurance and MOT docs properly, as they would clearly not pertain to the old vehicle.
So she broke the rules taxing it without the required documentation.
And he broke the rules by not double-checking his car was taxed.
Bummer.
I hope you're reporting her to the PO local and national and raising a complaint, as she could be taxing all sots of uninsured vehicles - tell your local rag too, warn the locals, or they'll all end up untaxed...

I think everyone gets that you're aggrieved (as most people would be, particularly if the PO didn't give you any printout at all showing the reg of the car they had taxed), but YOU REALLY NEED TO BE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT WITH THE POST OFFICE COMPLAINTS TEAM, NOT ON HERE. You could manage to convince everyone here that you're right, but unless the PO complaints team also believe you are right, you're not going to get any money back.

The DVLA web page requests mot and reduced emission certificate. Looked at it again this morning. You.mean you didn't know? Tisk. Fancy not being up to date with every Nuance of the DVLA.

He had no idea of the tax status of the new car. He was replacing an old car with a slightly less old car with lower mileage. (by New I meant new to him). The tax
bracket of the car was irrelevant to his buying it, he did not expect it to be lower.

Seriously, for every direct debit, you check that it has gone? Fair enough. Do you also check that the debit has gone to the right place? Do you phone each and every payee every month to check that it has arrived and that it's the correct amount. Seriously every month you do that? Because that's the only way you can be SURE that the transaction has completed properly and keep you from defaulting. I have 15 direct debits. That's a lot of places to phone and double check every month. How do you find the time?

Or do you check your account, see the money has debited and assume that the bank has don't its job sent it to the correct payee? Just as my husband assumed that the post office had taxed the correct car?

Incidentally I AM HAVING THIS ARGUMENT WITH THE POST OFFICE AND DVLA IN THE FORM OF WRITTEN COMPLAINTS. I am also in touch with the parliamentary and heath service ombudsmen.
But apologies for posting on a public website.

I can not fathom why your DH thought needed the V5 for a totally irrelevant vehicle when taxing the new one.

Both he and the PO employee are at fault IMO.

He really didn't know it had less to pay in tax? That's weird because seriously all the people I know that have new cars, even petrol head DH, it's the third thing they talk about after the colour and how fast it goes.

Like this: SQUEE got a new car!!
Friends: ooh what's it like
Me: it's blue, super nifty and the tax is £30 a year!!!!

or every direct debit, you check that it has gone?

When I set up a new one, yes.

The first time I bought an 'invisible tax disc', yes.

When I moved house, and changed them all, yes.

Takes a couple of minutes and can save a lot of problems. Especially when there is a legal obligation attached.

I will do the same next month, when I get the tax disc for DHs car. And for the foreseeable future, until I get complacent about the non existent things.

this new system only started in October

What new system? The only difference is that you don't get a paper disc. Nothing else has changed.

TBH, I imagine the problem was when he handed over the V5 for the old car. I suspect the PO employee asked for the V5, meaning the one for the car to be taxed and your DH handed over the one for the old car. I can't imagine she specifically asked to see the V5 of the irrelevant vehicle.

I explained previously. He was asking for information regarding SORNing the old vehicle and she asked to see the registration doc. They had a conversation and he decided not to sorn on that day. That was his first enquiry and he said no thanks I won't SORN at the current time. That was the end of enquiry and conversation 1.

He then moved on to enquiry and conversation 2 asking, can I now tax my new car. He then completely separately handed over a different set of documents for the new car, namely the ones deemed necessary by the DVLA website, in a plastic pocket.

She then taxed the car using the old car reg doc and stapled the apparently wrong type of receipt to the new car docs as our proof of purchase.

Not everyone is a petrol head the new car was not a squeee exciting purchase. It was the replacing of a shite old car with a slightly less shite but still pretty old car with a long MOT. Its only requirement was to be cheap to buy and to run reliably to and from work. Tax class never entered into it.

Oh, right. That doesn't match what you said initially at all. In fact it is the opposite. It can't be both.

He did not present the old car rev did initially, he presented the new car docs, she asked for the old car doc to be passed through.

If she asked for a registration document to tax the car like you originally claimed, she meant the one for the actual car you were taxing. If your Dh handed over the old one, it is his fault.

Of course, your story has changed now so who knows.

The old car was taxed twice because it was already taxed and the post office taxed it again rather than taxing the new car as asked

This isn't actually possible. If I can see on my PC at home that a vehicle is already taxed and when the tax expires (and we currently have about 10 - car, van, various motorbikes, so we check a lot), there's no reason why the PO counter wouldn't see this either.

Oh! You are right, Smarter. I wrote up thread that it had happened to me, but that was a couple of years ago.

Now www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/350422/Vehicle_tax_changes_webchat_transcript.pdf

it seems that if a car is taxed a second time the original 'taxer' is automatically refunded!

Convo 1 regarding SORN, old car reg doc passed through. Convo 1 concluded doc passed back.

Convo 2 regarding new taxing began, poly pocket of new car docs passed through on their own initially. Counter assistant then asked for old car doc again, which was passed through.
I havent changed anything.

It IS possible for a car to be taxed twice. I spoke to post office head office this morning.
A/ there is nothing in the system to stop double taxing. There would be an on screen message saying "overlap" but nothing to stop it being processed

B/ MOT and emmission docs are not required despite the DVLA web site continuing to say that they are and the reminder paperwork still being issued saying that they are.

We were not automatically refunded anything. A refund will be generated now that this has come to light but until now there was no sign of an automatic anything. Nothing came to our attention until the fines arrived this week .

With change of ownership you automatically get a refund of any outstanding tax on the sold vehicle. Dh received a cheque today for balance on car traded in 10 days . I'd think if you did have tax running concurrently you'd get a refund on both if there are whole months left.