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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think all these school becoming acadamies is actually shit for the children and staff

60 replies

redandwhitetoadstool · 16/02/2015 20:00

just allows the school to get away with paying lower wages and treat the school like a business, rather then children's educators

OP posts:

Chertsey · 16/02/2015 20:06

It might "allow" that but every single academy I know has stuck with the national payscales, apart from when they've paid over the odds to retain/attract good staff.

Nothing wrong with a school being run like a business, there is an appalling amount of wasted resources in some schools.

EatDessertFirst · 16/02/2015 20:13

From my point of view (DD started at a failing school just made into an academy) its been a massive benefit. The school has had a huge cash injection, teachers are excellent and the Head kicks ass! Standards are improving at her school and she is flourishing.

Mintyy · 16/02/2015 20:15

Yanbu.

It has been a terrible thing in many parts of the country.

TywysogesGymraeg · 16/02/2015 20:20

Schools are run like businesses whether or not they're Academies (ex-governor).

Luciferbox · 16/02/2015 20:21

Yanbu. DH works in one after 3 comps. The difference is scary.

DishwasherDogs · 16/02/2015 20:26

My older 2 dc are at an academy, it is a brilliant school compared to how it was.
They have very clear rules and high expectations of the pupils.
We're very happy with it.

Before it became an academy it was dreadful for loads of reasons, but staff now are quickly getting on top of bullying, exam results and other areas that were not good.

Fruityb · 16/02/2015 20:26

Made no difference to me. Pay scales stayed the same and school runs the same as it ever ever did. They don't like change round our way lol

changeychangechangeychange · 16/02/2015 20:37

If anything academies pay their staff more than maintained schools. I dont know one that pays less than the national scales and some pay above or have additional payment structures.

Again I have not been to an academy that has unqualified teachers although that is allowed.

BristolMum321 · 16/02/2015 20:37

Your question assumes that the current payscales which reward longevity is the best way to reward good teachers.
From my working experience in the private sector (not education), pay based on years of service would be madness & that's without a great big final salary pension to factor into the mix.
I'd happily pay more tax to increase good teachers salary, so long as it was made alot easier to get rid the of crap, jaded lazy ones. You get crap, jaded & lazy people in all professions, it's just in most other professions they are easier to sack/promote to a level of incompetance/re-structrure out of their role.

peutetre · 16/02/2015 22:00

perfectly worded Bristolmum.

TwitterWooooo · 16/02/2015 23:17

Yanbu my dc became an academy 2 years ago, it was satisfactory when they took over, and is now is special measures with the academy trust have given the boot or left the school high and dry no one will confirm either way.

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2015 23:20

We don't have pay scales based on years of service any more, nor a big fat final salary pension.

catrin · 16/02/2015 23:36

I am an advisory teacher, so visit many schools. I would not, ever, voluntarily put my daughter in an academy and I would never, ever work in one. As far as I am concerned, the standard of education is high at the expense of the needs of children. They are regimented and joyless, for both children and staff.

chilephilly · 17/02/2015 06:56

Not so Bristol mum, it's really easy to sack a teacher. This is how to do it: observe their teaching and grade it using OFSTED criteria. The criteria are so woolly you can see whatever you want. They Require Improvement. You observe them again 4 weeks later: RI again. They have now lost confidence in their teaching ability, but that's OK. You give them a Support Package. This means a set of impossible targets, more observations and bullying. By now the teacher is utterly ground down and will leave of their own accord, but if they don't you only need 2 or 3 more observations that are not up to scratch to sack them. The process can be as short as 6 weeks.
I did some headship training that advocated this - they called it "getting the wrong people off the bus". That was when I decided headship wasn't for me.

currywurst · 17/02/2015 07:06

bristolmum where do you get your information about teachers from?

Did you know that
-The average teacher works 60 hours a week

Pay scales are not automatically incremental
There is now a well used procedure for getting rid of teachers?

EdithWeston · 17/02/2015 07:07

Guardian piece here which shows how few teachers are actually sacked and that as Labour supports the ideas of continuous review, plus ensuring heads have the powers they need to rid themselves of bad teachers, performance reviews look as if they are here to stay.

Killasandra · 17/02/2015 07:21

YABVU.

There are good academies and bad academies. Good LEA schools and bad ones.

Round here the LEAs not brilliant so all the secondaries became academies. None of them appear any different.

The LEA now wants all the primaries to become academies.

My DC go to 2 diff academies and I and them are very happy with them.

Becoming an academy didn't change them at all.

Maybe you are talking about a subset of academies that are run by chains you don't like?

tobysmum77 · 17/02/2015 07:48

I think yabu our LA are awful

BrianButterfield · 17/02/2015 07:50

That article is from 2012. Believe me, a lot has changed since then.

cartoonsaveme · 17/02/2015 07:57

Our school converted to an academy. It's as amazing as it was but now has more cash to spend on sorting out the facilities !! Maybe some regimented chains are awful but there are none near us - all individual academies and most schools have converted now

Chertsey · 17/02/2015 08:03

Edith is right, in theory, teachers no longer get annual automatic increments and it should be easy to remobve them, but in practise the old system is still being used in the vast majority of schools.

We know there are a lot of very poor teachers (and loads of excellent ones) but how many have actually been sacked for poor performance? AFAIK, it's not a single one in our LA. (I would know, if it had happened, I would have been consulted on it)

ToffeeCaramel · 17/02/2015 08:08

Is there much difference between a converter academy and one that's part of a chain for the pupils and teachers?

CharlesRyder · 17/02/2015 08:11

IME teachers don't hang on long enough to be sacked. I have been party to the scenario where a quiet word had been had with a struggling teacher to say 'the process' is heading towards sacking. The teacher has always then gone voluntarily with an agreed reference.

noblegiraffe · 17/02/2015 08:11

I don't know any teachers who have been sacked for poor performance, however I know of quite a few that have been forced to quit. Heads don't need to sack teachers, they just make their jobs unbearable.

honeysucklejasmine · 17/02/2015 08:13

Becoming an academy is great for a big cash injection. A school i worked at recently came out of special measures and straight to "Good" with record breaking results. It's an LA school still. It wants to become an academy but the LA will only agree if it joins an existing chain, where the comparable schools are rated mostly RI and have worse results.

They need the money desperately. It did not get special measures funding due to a proposed take over which never happened (because when it becomes an academy it will get cash, so LA decided to save the money). So it's now in desperate financial straights with no realistic future. Can't be taken over by a worse school and the LA won't cough up because it could be taken over at some point and no longer be an LA school.

Kids, staff and results are going to suffer because of this bloody academy obsession.

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