The Tories and their new hoops for the working poor to jump through.

[HelenaDove]

If you are not working enough hours or cant get enough hours you will apparently be sanctioned. Unbelievable I cant see some employers being happy with this either although they should be paying a living wage in the first place. Because ppl who have been sanctioned are hardly going to be able to get to work are they?

Ridiculous and vindictive.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/ministers-are-reaching-beyond-scroungers-and-aiming-britain-s-working-poor

That's true saskia, I don't know much about family credit but I think the 16 hour thing didn't work for tax credits. It prevented people taking a 12 hour job which could have been a foot up the ladder and encouraged others to take the bare minimum even when unnecessary.

Ideally wouldn't it be so lovely to be able to survive on a full time wage?

I feel the adage about the poor always being with us does have some applicability here: no matter how high the minimum wage is raised to, as the minimum it will naturally always be paid to those at the bottom of society - and that isn't a crass remark; I'm on less than minimum wage myself!

The problem for some time has been the lack of distinction between the receipt of some benefits and those earning the minimum wage. The 16 hour rule always seemed a bit crazy to me.

I'm far from unsympathetic to those working for companies who mess them around but it is worth mentioning zero hours can mean exploited employee - or a system that's flexible for both sides. I am on a zero hours contract and am yet to have zero hours or even anything under 20 (I don't want more than 10!)

This government hate the poor.

This isn't about benefit fraud: people are currently claming tax credits perfectly legally.

Where was benefit fraud mentioned?

On the diagram the poster above me posted :)

Ah, don't think I can see it on my phone.

Benefit fraud is just a red herring, I don't believe it costs nearly as much as they make out.

I can remember before the last election the Tories spouting how they were going to save so many million by cutting benefits for those who get caught for fraud 3 times. It came out that has never happened or it was something like 0.01%

It was more to demonstrate the large amount of evaded and avoided tax which this government does little about.

Maybe if they focussed on that then they could use the money to fund a living wage.

It would need to be a very high living wage indeed if people only needed to work for 16 hours without tax credit top ups!

Well personally and I might get flamed for this, I think it's ridiculous to work only 16 hours unless you've no other option.

On the other hand better to take a 4 hour or an 8 hour job than no job at all.

That's why I'm not against the u/c credit rules in theory.

I'd hate to see someone pulled out of a secure 30 hour job though for an interview that leads to nothing (this seems to be what people think will happen).

I mean really it would be nice if a single person would cover their bills and housing costs on full time hours nmw but in reality they can't without top ups.

Single people have to for the most part. Single with a child or children certainlt can't but then I know professional people relying on top ups because of childcare costs.

I mean really it would be nice if a single person would cover their bills and housing costs on full time hours nmw but in reality they can't without top ups.

2 friends of mine are full time on NMW as single people, and they are not able to get one penny piece in top - ups, 750.00 per month take home to pay rent, food, everything. they are both nearing 50, kids grown up so no more child benefit or child tax credits, just their paltry pay.

How do they cope grumpy? I think it's a joke, you can't rent much round here for less than £550 a month

IME by doing 50/60 hours p/w

True Tartan, saying that dp only earns the wage he does by doing 50/60 hours a week and he's in a skilled trade. He'd be able to live on his basic rate but not afford a family.

How do they cope grumpy? I think it's a joke, you can't rent much round here for less than £550 a month

That is the rent one of them pays, she has shown me her pay slips and we have gone through the benefit calculator but because her adult, very disabled son lives with her and received DLA she is entitled to nothing extra. (no cares allowance for example) so, she desperately needs a dentist, cant afford it, her son has many hospital appointments so she has transport costs, if she gets sick she must pay for prescriptions. Food is, and I have accompanied her shopping, a giant pack of value fish fingers, giant bag of chips, lots of beans, bananas and such like. (please no-one start talking about lentils, her key meter gas is very high) the house is cold, and she has holes in her shoes. She works hard, at a high street store that we all pay over the odds for pretty nick-nacks for our homes.
It is a very, very tough way to live, working hard for absolutely no reward at the end of the month.

Oh yes don't even get me started in the likes of Jamie Oliver and how 'the poor' waste money on takeaways and ready meals and he can feed the five thousand for 50p.

It's wrong, people without children seem to get forgotten about.

Haven't read the full thread but thought I would chip in with my situation. I have a professional job but can't work fulltime due to caring responsibilities (3 DC & a DH with chronic degeberative condition, he can barely walk some days). I only work 16hrs. Tax credits are a godsend to people like me who can only work limited hours. My hourly rate is a good bit more than NMW so I rally feel for those in a similar position but on much lower pay. I could go full time, claim childcare TC (I think I would qualify?) and get my DH support from the council in the form of carers. Or jack it all in completely to go on full benefits & claim carers allowance. both options would be expensive for the taxpayers. The tories see everything as black & white. We are all human beings with varying circumstances which don't fit neatly into the their little boxes.

I'm

The government reduced the ni contributions a company had to make for part time staff, making it cheaper to employ 2PT rather than 1FT. I'm assuming that they did this to fiddle the unemployment figures (because under-employed isn't counted and more people are employed over all).

If they now want these under-employed people to work FT are they going to reverse the change, or simply expect a lot of people to get 2PT jobs?

Seems like they want to have their cake and eat it. The bastards make me

"Before tax credits there was something called family credit which topped up low pay"

And nothing to help ppl without kids on low pay I remember seeing jobs in the JC that were 50p an hour £1.50 an hour and £50 a week Along with the attitude that if you didnt have kids it didnt matter if you couldnt afford to buy food or got evicted.

In 1992 I earned £60 a week. I wasn't eligible for any housing benefit. I was living in a bedsit, surrounded by drug dealers. It was all I could afford.

I hope nobody's trying to pit the single poor against the poor with families? It's a shit situation for all of us- I worry constantly about having to keep a stable home for the sake of the DC, but am also painfully aware that most of the suicides and other deaths related to the benefit cuts have been single unemployed people.

That is the rent one of them pays, she has shown me her pay slips and we have gone through the benefit calculator but because her adult, very disabled son lives with her and received DLA she is entitled to nothing extra. (no cares allowance for example) so, she desperately needs a dentist, cant afford it, her son has many hospital appointments so she has transport costs, if she gets sick she must pay for prescriptions

It may pay to get her to see a professional. Her sons DLA is none means testable this means it cannot be counted as income. And it does not matter if he lives in her house as LNG as he gets the right rate of DLA she can claim carers allowence.

She can also use the NHS low income scheme to get either free or reduced NHS treatment and prescriptions

www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/1125.aspx

Long not LNG