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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Jury service

94 replies

Thurlow · 14/02/2015 18:28

First things first, I 100% agree with how jury service is run and believe everyone should do it.

But seeing another thread today (apologies for the TAAT, I didn't want to hijack) made me think. Lots of people on the thread saying you just have to sort out any problems you have i.e. childcare.

What happens if you really can't just sort something like childcare (or caring for another relative) for two weeks? What if you are a single parent or your OH works in a job that can't give time off, like teaching or the emergency services, and you don't have family or friends to help? Or what if you don't drive and the court isn't served by public transport from your area?

I really do get the logic that you should try and make it work, but what happens if you haven't got the support to go, or going would cost you absolutely £00s?

OP posts:
WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 14/02/2015 20:08

treacle - x-posted with you. One of my fellow jurors was let off on similar grounds to you, she was picked for the case I just posted about but once they had read out the charges she realised she couldn't cope and the judge let her go and swore in a new jury. They do not want to jeopardise anyone's mental health, if nothing else they can't afford to risk getting well underway with a case and having one of the jurors have to leave.

PrimalLass · 14/02/2015 20:09

I deferred when DD was 3 because of child care.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 14/02/2015 20:09

The letter just turns up in the post.

Annietheacrobat · 14/02/2015 20:09

Treacle - you may well be able to get an excusal on medical grounds, though they could argue that violent cases are upsetting to most people.

I did jury service a couple of years ago. I deferred it once as had a newborn and then was called up the first two weeks of a new job and my DDs new childcare. I was only working PT back then and so DD not only had to adjust to her new childminders but was there 5 days a week too. She and I survived.

Jury service was fascinating. Inside a courtroom is a different world. The posturing and banter between the barristers, the dozing judge etc.

Fortunately my case was interesting but not traumatic. It has changed how my view one of the local towns though .

PrimalLass · 14/02/2015 20:11

With DD I might have got away with putting her into unknown childcare, but DS had very bad separation anxiety and I would have rather been fined than put him through that. It might be civic duty yada yada but to expect preschoolers to go off with strangers for 2 weeks is just not on.

OutragedFromLeeds · 14/02/2015 20:12

If you absolutely can't do it for any reason then you don't do it. They're really not that unreasonable about it. If they initially refuse to let you off, you argue the point. They don't drag you off in the middle of the night and lock you up and throw away the key. Absolute worst case scenario you get a fine.

I've been let off on grounds that my employer couldn't spare me. What do I do? I'm a nanny! So I would imagine a real inability to find/use/afford childcare would be an acceptable reason.

BigBroIsWatching · 14/02/2015 20:12

I'm unsure about the points you made with regards to travel etc.

But when I was breastfeeding, they let me defer for a year. I'm wondering if they will write back soon?

Has anyone deferred then not heard from them Again? It's been 18 months Hmm

Nanny0gg · 14/02/2015 20:24

Isn't it strange?

I'm in my 60s, my DH in his 70s and neither of us, or our DC or their spouses have ever been called up.

threepiecesuite · 14/02/2015 20:34

My mum and friend have done it twice.
Appparently your electoral role number changed every two years now, so you may get picked within two years of doing it once.

I'd love to do it again. I really learnt something about myself, and the break from work made me re-evaluate my own circumstances, and begin seeking a new job.

AlpacaLypse · 14/02/2015 20:39

I think I asked for the maximum deferral, a year (?) - and the deferred call came within a few weeks of the year being up.

It was a while ago now, memory starts to haze over!

The thing I found strangest was being in the jury room after the trial, with just the twelve of us. We had been given only the vaguest guidelines on what we had to do. We knew we had to appoint a foreman/woman, so we started with that. At the time, I was a volunteer Secretary with the playgroup, so I asked if anyone wanted to volunteer for the role (privately deciding that if only one came forward I'd volunteer myself so that there'd be competition and a chance for debate).

In fact three of the jurors put themselves forward, one of whom was a company director and trustee of a couple of charities, as we'd all discovered during our lunch break chats.

It was patently obvious he was the best person to chair our group, and we voted him in unanimously.

It had already become clear that most of us thought the accused was guilty, and our Foreman asked us all to do a preliminary 'Guilty, Not Guilty' vote - with reasons. However he made us all think harder by saying that he was going to vote 'not guilty' until we managed to convince him otherwise! This was really shrewd of him, and I admire what he did very much. It meant we didn't go into sheep-like herd mode, everyone had to come up with reasons why they thought as they did.

At one point we came up against a point of law, which we weren't sure about, so we asked the judge's advice, which came back very promptly and helpfully.

After three hours all told, we found accused guilty and went back to the courtroom to say so. It was very comforting in some ways to hear the Clerk of the Court read out the list of previous offences that man had been found guilty of (which of course we'd had no knowledge of), and we realised we'd sent down a person who'd had a never-ending string of guilty verdicts for violence and had been out on remand when he committed this one.

RedButtonhole · 14/02/2015 20:43

I live in a rural village. Our bus service would not let you get to the court before 10.30am and is expensive as we are so out of the way. No taxis in the town and none will do runs to and from the village before 9am because they all do school runs.

The nearest childminders and nurseries are 20 miles away and to use these you would need to get off of the bus that gets you to the court to drop the children of, thus you wouldn't make it to the court before 11.30 roughly.

If your children are at school, there are no pick up or drop off services and no wrap around care unless you are blessed enough to have relatives or friends who would do this for you. Having to drop children at school would mean missing the bus.

There is also a distinct possibility that people don't have a pocket full of cash for extra petrol or bus tickets amd childcare fees up front. I know I wouldn't have that sort of money to spare unless it was right after payday and I was guaranteed it back in a couple of days.

It's easy for people to claim you need.to get round the logistics but sometimes it's just not possible. I'm lucky that I do drive and have some family support, I would more or less manage but many people wouldn't.

I agree that it's a civic duty and I wouldn't defer without very good reason- I actually want to be called, but I can imagine situations where it would really be impossible for some.

threepiecesuite · 14/02/2015 20:45

Alpaca I had a similar experience. We had a retired lawyer on our jury who guided us well but didn't try to take over.

The defendant we found guilty had many previous convictions and had spun us a story in court to cover his crimes. He received a long prison sentence and I felt good that I'd played my part in getting at least one criminal off the streets for a long time.

BMO · 14/02/2015 20:46

I'd be happy to do jury service and have no problem putting my DSs in childcare, but my oldest is at a school with no wraparound and I had awful problems finding any childminders that collected from there. I wonder what would happen about childcare.

I also don't drive and would need to be able to get my DC somewhere on foot/by public transport.

I couldn't pay for additional childcare up front - would the court pay for it.

NK5BM3 · 14/02/2015 20:49

I've never been called up for jury service. Don't think dh has either. Would love to. Would love to see my employers go into panic mode even more to cover my work!!! Grin

AlpacaLypse · 14/02/2015 20:50

Hear hear threepiecesuite.

Our man got eight years.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 14/02/2015 20:52

When I did my second stint (about 5 years after the first one) it turned out that more than half is us had done it before.

IAmNotAPrincessIAmAKahleesi · 14/02/2015 20:56

Can you be excused on medical grounds?

If I were to be called I'd be physically unable to do it. It would also be awful if my DH were called, he is my full-time carer. I wonder if social services would provide care for me and the dc if that happened? Does anyone know?

fairgame · 14/02/2015 21:01

I really wouldn't be able to do it. DS goes to an out of county special school and is taxi'd every day. The council policy is that the taxi will only pick off and drop off at the home address so he wouldn't be able to go to childminder. Plus he has complex needs and the last childcare he went to he got kicked out of. I have no family nearby and my friend also works part time so she wouldn't be able to wait in for him every day either.
It is something i would like to do, it's just that at this point in my life i really can't!

MaryBerrysLostCherry · 14/02/2015 21:02

I defered once as ebf and suffering pnd, was under medical care. Second notice arrived at a time when I was working for an expert witness and so was tenuously involved in justice system. I got excused then too.

RingtheBells · 14/02/2015 21:25

I only known two people who have been called, I'm 57 and my dad was one of them, the other was work colleague both about 30 years ago, so it's not that likely, I guess.

ajandjjmum · 14/02/2015 21:25

I wrote asking for our employee to be excused in view of the situation at work (ie. potentially letting down clients for four weeks - and ultimately losing business), but they wouldn't postpone it at all.

MidniteScribbler · 14/02/2015 22:38

Our system is a bit different here in Australia (you certainly don't get childcare expenses paid!). I got called a couple of years ago, but sent back the form pointing out that I had was a single parent to 2 year old DS, am a carer to an 80 year old, doing a PhD, and it was in the middle of the standardised testing period for my students. Technically I should have been deferred, but I rang them a couple of weeks later, and the lady said that they had just excused me all together because of my circumstances, so I think they are reasonable when people it genuinely just can't work for some people.

Chattymummyhere · 14/02/2015 22:43

So glad I'm exempt and don't have to worry about it

Redglitter · 14/02/2015 22:48

Me too Chattymum

I got called once and took great delight in sending the paperwork back with a thanks but no thanks Smile

6031769 · 14/02/2015 23:00

i did jury service pre children and whilst I did sort of enjoy it (my cases weren't too gory) it left me out of pocket. Its ok for people that work in the public sector as they still get paid salary but if your work doesn't pay you for jury service you have to claim off the court and unless its gone up drastically the max per day for loss of earnings was something like £55. Ok its more than minimum wage but if you are on more than that you lose out. Also I remember the clerk making a real big fuss when I put in my claim for loss of earnings as it was the maximum saying 'I don't know if they'll pay this', looking back i'd wish i'd said something back or even made a complaint. What also pissed me off about jury service is that for me they would only reimburse travel by bus. I work in a different city to where I was doing jury service and to drive from one to the other would have been just under an hour. But because the jury service would only reimburse bus I had go get bus home which is 45 mins travel plus up to half hour waiting for the bus, then 45 mins drive from home to work, so it wasn't even worth going to work when jury service finished early.