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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

By an Elderly German saying Dresden was a war crime.

763 replies

Rjae · 13/02/2015 19:48

He said, yes, Germany started the war but the bombing of Dresden was a war crime.

AIBU to be outraged by this.

Exterminating Jews, gipsies, and prisoners of war was a war crime.
Invading half a dozen European countries and murdering it's citizens was a war crime.
Bombing Londoners and other british cities long before Dresden was a war crime
Starting the fucking war was a war crime.

Dresden was horrific of course, but not a war crime, unless you consider everything a war crime. It shouldn't have happened, but neither should the war. I'm sorry so many people were killed and a beautiful city destroyed. They were civilians but they supported Hitler wholeheartedly.

No doubt it didn't do much except kill civilians in the long wrong, but that still doesn't make it a war crime.

OP posts:
Samcro · 13/02/2015 19:49

Havnt heard it, but yanbu

SlaggyIsland · 13/02/2015 19:50

YABU. Very. Dresden was ghastly.

YouKnowNothinJonSnow · 13/02/2015 19:51

I agree it wasn't a war crime, Germany were at war they should expect to be bombed at some point.

But I disagree with you that Germans supported Hitler wholeheartedly. I think you'll find quite a lot didn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter. He was a very charismatic which is how he came to power in the first place.

limitedperiodonly · 13/02/2015 19:52

No doubt it didn't do much except kill civilians in the long wrong, but that still doesn't make it a war crime.

Is this supposed to be a sick joke?

alwaysstaytoolong · 13/02/2015 19:53

Dresden was of course a war crime.

You know nothing about history.

KateMosley · 13/02/2015 19:54

100% agree. With the German in question. It was the brutal massacre of innocent civilians. Whatever the German Government did or did not do, 25000 civilian did not deserve to be burnt to death.

It was done to crush German moral. They targeted civilians to crush the moral. Children were burned to death. How on earth is that anything other than war crime?

SantanaLopez · 13/02/2015 19:54

Atrocities against persons or property- tick
Wanton destruction of cities, town or villages- yeah, tick
devastation not justified by military necessity- tick

YABU.

YouTheCat · 13/02/2015 19:55

What about Coventry? What about London?

They began the bombing of civilians.

SolomanDaisy · 13/02/2015 19:55

I don't think it's a particularly controversial view that it was a war crime. I believe there were questions raised about it in Britain at the time and the technique wasn't used again because of the outrage it caused.

Original poster
Rjae · 13/02/2015 19:55

Err, it's on the news Confused

I said its horrible and I agree there were plenty of Germans who wouldn't have voted for hitler if they had known the outcome. Nobody deserves to die in a firestorm, but to say its a war crime in the same breath as saying Germany started the war took my breath away!

OP posts:
jeanmiguelfangio · 13/02/2015 19:56

The bombing of Dresden was part of my dissertation and I've studied it in depth from various angles.
It's a very difficult thing to judge because we have hindsight. At the time, those making decisions didn't know the war would be over in a few months so it of course looks worse when we have all the information.
I was a little Hmm when I believe it was Tony Blair who apologised for the bombing.
Also what happened in Dresden, and previously in Hamburg, was a series of events that caused the firestorms that resulted. Although of course it wouldn't have occurred without the vast quantity of incendiaries!!
I personally don't see it as a war crime but it's still a difficult question. I suppose it depends on your view of a war crime, and also your experience of it. If he was there during the bombing and the ensuing chaos he may feel that way. Doesnt mean he is correct mind
Blimey, must remove splinters from sitting on the fence there!!

DoctorDonnaNoble · 13/02/2015 19:56

Doesn't make it right to do the same.

SolomanDaisy · 13/02/2015 19:57

You can't argue against Dresden being a war crime by citing the crimes of the other side. That's not a valid argument.

LeggyBlondeNE · 13/02/2015 19:57

Tit for tat is hardly a justification for massacres...

SlaggyIsland · 13/02/2015 19:58

Why did it take your breath away OP? It's not only the side that "started it" that is capable of committing war crimes.

sanfairyanne · 13/02/2015 19:58

it probably was by any reasonable definition. one war crime (or a million war crimes) does not justify another

PopularNamesInclude · 13/02/2015 19:59

Dresden was a War crime.

Pilgit · 13/02/2015 19:59

My grandmother was driven through dresden after being liberated from a Nazi camp. She maintained that the bombing was unnecessary and abhorrent as it targeted civilians. She came from warsaw and she was appalled that this was done by the allies at it was this sort of thing she fought against.

GalensOyster · 13/02/2015 19:59

YABU. What was done to Dresden was a war crime.

AndHarry · 13/02/2015 19:59

Dresden was absolutely a war crime. Have you read the accounts of what happened? They are sickening. Babies being ripped out of their mothers' arms by the flames sucking oxygen from the streets, children falling into melting bitumen as they tried to run, thousands of people burning and suffocating to death. Dresden was not a military target, it was packed with refugees fleeing the Russian advance. Just because the German government did horrific things did not just justify the Allies in doing what they did.

YouTheCat · 13/02/2015 20:00

I wasn't arguing against it being a war crime. I was just pointing out that it was a tactic used by both sides during a time of war.

I think it's a little late in the day for apportioning guilt over alleged war crimes that happened 70 years ago.

SlaggyIsland · 13/02/2015 20:00

Amy deliberate targeting of civilians is to my mind a war crime.

MaidOfStars · 13/02/2015 20:00

I consider it a war crime.

windchime · 13/02/2015 20:00

Eye for an eye imo.

FatherReboolaConundrum · 13/02/2015 20:00

War crimes aren't determined by whether or not the society the victims lived in did something worse or first. Dresden was a war crime, without any question at all: it was a deliberate targeting of non-combatants. Does that make Nazi-era Germany any less guilty for starting WW2 and for the Holocaust? Of course not.

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