drug search at school

[hahaRainbow]

Is this legal? my ds has come home from school (state comp) where (he says) during a science class, a teacher arrived announcing that 'this is a drug free school and now we are going to have the sniffer dogs in'.

Apparently the kids were then lined up while a dog ran up and down sniffing them and another dog sniffed the classroom.

of course I'm not happy about drugs at school but I do wonder about the legalities of this and what IF a kid had been caught.... am I wrong to be worried?

'Waiting your turn' in a normal class for a quick pass of the dog is going to take probably two minutes tops (assuming the dog and handler are ready to go). Hardly that much time for terrible fear to set in.

UncleT I didn't know that. I was going on the dogs at work and at the airport that you see around the place.

If it is the case that drugs dogs need everyone to be lined at for checking then I'm really uncomfortable with that in schools for the reasons that I have been talking about all the way through.

To put another perspective. Schools have to keep every child safe. I too am not a fan of searches/metal detectors etc. However, this week a knife (domestic knife, clearly adapted for weapon use) fell out of a student's pocket in my classroom.

According to them they weren't going to use it 'at school' (so that's ok then ) but the sight of that blade lying on an exercise book has absolutely affected me. Every child in that room is a son or daughter. Most are volatile. I can't stop thinking about what others might be carrying now. I did trust them to a certain extent and that feels largely gone now.

I don't know why I've added this to the debate. It's no exaggeration to say that the children I work with are rotting their brains with excessive weed smoking. I take pilchard's point about trust and respect but I think a harder line has to be taken sometimes. It's how that's taken which is most important.

UncleT if you are scared / mistrustful of "the authorities" then having what the OP described happen will be detrimental.

I know that others say if people have had bad stuff happen in other countries then so what this is the UK but really I think some sensitivity around these things is in order.

I have also mentioned many times areas with high levels of stop and search, to have that continued into schools will have a detrimental effect on those students, like there's no safe haven. Everyone thinks you're a criminal. The consequences of this are really bad in some communities and cause a lot of trouble for the police and everyone else. People get hardened in their view both ways.

Eton has a random drug test policy similar to the Military CDT scheme - testers come in, gates are closed, random people selected and have to pee in bottles which are then drug tested.

The only difference I can see is that on a military camp everyone gets tested, not just a percentage.

Far more intrusive than a crazy spaniel running past

It may (may?) be OK in schools in areas where "the authorities" are not viewed with fear and suspicion? Even then I don't like it, I really don't.

My dd's involvement with the police at school so far has been

1. school visit by the local police who brought a police horse with them and the children were allowed to stroke it and take photos standing next to it and wearing police helmets - great fun for the dc
2. class visit by a parent who is a police officer who told them a bit about forensic work and allowed them to 'dust' fingerprints - also fun
3. educational visit by police educating children about 'stranger danger' basically telling the dc that danger can come from a person who looks friendly e.g. offering them sweets and I think something about crossing roads safely, can't remember exactly

So, the police do make efforts to engage with local schools and this is good. My dd is only 7 but so far she has had three positive interactions with police at school (and visits to fire station which also shows trust in authorities I think). But like pilchard I would still have a problem with the situation described in the OP.

Needs to be about the situation in the school, the mix of students, the context (are there gang problems are the children being controlled? is it casual small amounts? is there a big harder scene?) and so on.

Not one size fits all.

awful how did the school react - is this something that is a known problem or has it thrown you for a loop. How terrible, I'm sorry.

callooh, I am in awe of your tenacity.

But you do know, don't you, that pilchard never did have 4 other effective methods of ensuring schools are drug-free, don't you?

I bet she wishes there was an edit button

As I said, it entirely depends on what you're trying to achieve with the checks. One size definitely doesn't fit all here.

Perceived fear of authorities is an issue I concede, and yes it's important to get it done as quickly and unobtrusively as possible. However, if you know you have the
problem, the options are pretty limited once you've decided to get on with the dog option (and there simply is no better mass-sweep option).

For the record, my earlier point about my nice school was referring to a really decent comp in a nice rural part of the country, not some elite private establishment. It's actually everywhere.

I, like other posters, actually think prohibition in its current form needs serious revisiting as a strategy. However, there is no place in school for drugs. They're no good for learning, for starters.

Ooh, x-post, callooh

So you don't want to talk about any of those ideas or have a discussion, you just want to go on and on and on at me.

Maybe I can ask you one.

What do you think the impact of this policy will be in schools where stop and search is being used to a high level in the community?

UncleT
As I said Up thread, I believe that all drugs should be legalised
BUT
in the same way that smoking and drinking are banned in many workplaces, there is no place for drugs in the education / work environment.

If kids learn that at school, I genuinely cannot see the harm.

When the lockdown was done at the school - police cars blocking entrances etc
all I heard was how exciting it all was.
Even the lad who was a recent refugee from a very repressive regime seemed to cope.

I never said I could ensure schools were drug free!

This is bizarre.

I know some of you are sure you're right but can you not even see a little bit how having the police in, stopping the lesson, getting the kids to line up might be even a little problematical? Ever?

Maybe I can answer that one, pilchard, since it's clear you're never going to admit that you don't have 4 effective ways of tackling drugs in schools.

I think it could have a negative effect on students who have been stopped and searched in the past. However, a lot would depend on whether the school explains the process well and in the context of good drugs education. And it would also depend on whether the community leaders in areas experiencing high numbers of stop and search incidents also supported their schools in tackling drugs in schools.

What do you think would happen?

Honestly, when I was at school I would've thought it was pretty exciting to have the sniffer dogs in, especially if I got out of class for a bit. The only times I would've said my human rights were somehow being infringed upon was when I had a joint in my pocket. I doubt a whole lot of kids are traumatised by the whole thing.

I was a little shit at school.

Suburban that does sound like a good idea.

Do you think that explaining would really counteract it though? If that were the case, that approach would have diverted some of the existing problems I'd have thought? I think it's a bit of a what you say vs what you do thing - why would they listen to what they are told when what they see tells a different story?

lol Callooh

I still have this absolute visceral reaction to the idea of the police coming into classrooms, children being told to stop what they're doing and line up, and then being checked and presumably removed if they don't meet whatever the criteria are.

It makes me feel quite ill.

There just must be a better way of doing it.

For those of you who want to be given 4 effective ways of tackling drugs at school, perhaps you could write to the head of Eton, and ask him? He is effectively tackling drugs at his school without calling in police dogs to line up the children for searches. Somehow he has managed to expel drug users without having the entire school lined up for dog sniffs.

I don't actually think the situation described in the OP is 'normal' for the UK, so it doesn't have to be Eton, you could ask a whole raft of heads of school who tackle drugs without resorting to heavy-handed police tactics.

why would they listen to what they are told when what they see tells a different story?

For many reasons, for example because their community leaders make it clear that despite the unfairness of stop and search in their area, there is still an urgent need to tackle drug-selling in school? Because their teachers and parents reassure them that the two aren't the same and help them to see the difference? Because the students are intelligent enough to see that difference for themselves?

As I asked before, what do you think the impact would be and how would you tackle it?

pilchard
and then being checked and presumably removed if they don't meet whatever the criteria are.
stop confabulating. PLEASE

When the kids at DCs school got busted it was everybody else who was removed (and their camera phones )

and it was not surprise to anybody who it was.

kawliga, if pilchard had backed up her claims there would be no need to ask anyone else.