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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Spoiling your ballot paper - can anyone confirm this?

91 replies

TheListingAttic · 13/02/2015 11:13

To keep this in the 'spirit' of AIBU: I've always been unashamedly judgmental about people who don't vote. If you can't be arsed to go tick a box (especially as a women, when it's only relatively recently that the men deigned to allow you to do it) then you can't complain about pretty much anything about the society you live in. I fully understand people's disillusionment with the political system in general, and the whole shower of politicians in specific. So like a lot of people, I was of the opinion that if you can't bring yourself to tick a box endorsing any one of them (even as the least worst option) then you should at least go to the bother of spoiling of your ballot paper, to register your engagement with the process but protest against the actual choices it offers you. That's my two cents.

Talking to a friend of mine the other day, who used to do some sort of admin work within the electoral process, and she expressed absolute rage and frustration at people who spoil their ballots. Her point was that these papers don't register with anybody. They're never counted. She implied most papers are counted by machine, and anything that's not readable as a clear vote for a particular party just gets swept into a rubbish pile, and no one actually counts the discrepancy between numbers turning up at the polling station and numbers of valid votes. Your protest doesn't register with anyone at all.

So is it worth it? Is there any point in doing this, if no one actually notices? It seems a bit like holding a protest rally inside a sound-proofed disused warehouse. Is it even correct? Is there really genuinely no record or acknowledgement of the numbers of people turning up to vote but effectively not casting their vote? I probably wasn't going to spoil my ballot paper, but I always thought this was a worthwhile action. Now it seems like it's not recognised as any different to simply not turning up! Am I wrong?

OP posts:
var123 · 13/02/2015 12:31

@Breakingdad77 - You would need a candidate whose surname is alphabetically last, for a start!

NancyRaygun · 13/02/2015 12:33

I'm still not convinced why having more people vote is a good thing
voting is much more than crossing a box, and why is someone picking at random, or on prejudices, or on a knee jerk reaction a good thing?

Seriously? You don't want people who haven't given it much thought to vote? Maybe ban the ill educated then? Or immigrants? People who might not have understood the nuances of the language?

You can surely see that is an unreasonable position. Everyone over the age limit has the right to vote.

More people voting means the parties tailor themselves to the wider majority - more people are happy. More people have a say. More people are represented. I mean COME ON!

OOAOML · 13/02/2015 12:34

Edinburgh got counting machines Andrew, it didn't work out well. But it was also a day we had two different elections with two different systems, and complete mis-information on how to vote (there were posters and information available, but some of the people working at the polling station were contradicting them). I think that was also the election that someone attacked one of the ballot boxes (with a golf club if memory serves me correctly).

We could get voting terminals, but I don't know if I can cope with the stress of a 'hanging chad' scenario.

Scholes34 · 13/02/2015 12:34

Certainly in the forthcoming election spoiling ballot papers would be a good approach if the parties continue to bicker and have a go at each other's inadequacies and shortcomings, rather than concentrating on their own policies and giving me sound, well-thought through positive information to help me make a decision.

Who will dare say they'll put up taxes to pay for the services we need?

And yes, spoiled papers are counted.

var123 · 13/02/2015 12:34

BitOutOfPractice = i think you have two valid choices. Either stand yourself or vote for the person you dislike least.

I suspect that people think that all "none" votes mean that those people would vote for the same candidate if there was another choice, but that is extremely unlikely.

BitOutOfPractice · 13/02/2015 12:34

Vivienne I really really strongly believe that we should all vote when we have the chance. I want to vote.

MrsCakesPrecognition · 13/02/2015 12:35

morethan Have a look for your constituency on the electoral commission website and you will see that spoilt/rejected papers are counted.
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/uk-general-elections/2010-uk-general-election-results

BitOutOfPractice · 13/02/2015 12:38

var the Labour Party will not put up me or any other candidate in my ward. And sadly I have not the time or resources to start my own party - and why should I? I am perfectly happy with the party I am in

As for who I dislike least? Erm...that'll be all of them! Hence a spoiled paper!

I would love a "none of the above" option

Dawndonnaagain · 13/02/2015 12:40

I cannot believe the amount of people here who keep on saying that your friend is right. Spoiled votes are counted. I used to be a councillor, I have stood there watching them being counted at so many counts. It's a long and boring process, but the number of ballot papers coming in has to tally with the number of ballot papers issued, ergo all ballot papers are counted. They are not swept onto the floor and ignored. They are also double checked in the event of a re-count.

Kvetch15 · 13/02/2015 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

var123 · 13/02/2015 12:49

BitOutOfPractice - how about you simply write "NONE" on your paper?

I wonder why the labour party won't field candidates in various places? Is it to do with fear of losing their deposits?

AllYourBase · 13/02/2015 12:53

BreakingDad make sure all your candidates had the surname Zygmund, so they'd all appear at the bottom of the ballot paper too!

I think we should all agree on a common statement we can write on our ballot papers to express our dissatisfaction with the candidates.

Summerisle1 · 13/02/2015 12:56

At the count all potentially spoiled votes are identified, put to one side and then examined by the Returning Officer who determines whether a clear enough indication of the voter's intention has been recorded or not. Any paper that is determined to be spoiled is then counted and included in the total number of votes cast.

There is no further analysis of individual spoiled papers though. So it matter not whether someone has written a valid political comment or simply scrawled "Fuck The Lot of Youse" on the paper. A spoiled paper is just an invalid vote.

BoneyBackJefferson · 13/02/2015 12:59

I'm still not convinced why having more people vote is a good thing
voting is much more than crossing a box, and why is someone picking at random, or on prejudices, or on a knee jerk reaction a good thing?

I know people that vote the way they do because their parents voted that way, is that any different?

BitOutOfPractice · 13/02/2015 13:03

Ern var that's exactly what I've said I do!

I live in one of the very safest Tory seats in Britain. At local elections it is simply not worth us fielding a candidate.

I feel a bit lonely TBH Grin

var123 · 13/02/2015 13:09

BitOutOfPractice What you need is PR, but PR wouldn't suit either of the two main parties.

So, if you really support the labour party, you might feel torn between wanting what's best for the party and wanting what's best for you.

BreakingDad77 · 13/02/2015 13:19

Just looked on registering party and "none of the above" is specifically named as a party name you cant have Sad

fredfredgeorgejnr · 13/02/2015 13:40

BoneyBackJefferson / NancyRayGun Your own reason to vote for whoever you want is perfectly reasonable, as is your own reason to not bother to vote is perfectly reasonable.

However other people seem to think "getting more people to vote" is a good end in itself, even if it doesn't lead to better government, which I hope everyone would agree is the real goal in voting.

I would say for a vote to be useful in producing good government you want to maximise the number of informed voters, and minimise the number of people voting without being informed - for whatever reason - just because some people already vote without being informed doesn't mean we should encourage more.

OOAOML · 13/02/2015 13:48

That must be really hard Bit. Is there a CLP? What is the response if people pressure to field a candidate?

Also - what is the turnout in your area like? Safe seats can change over time, and increased turnout might make a big difference in an area like yours.

Topseyt · 13/02/2015 13:55

I like to vote at every election. I have never spoiled my ballot paper, but I have been disillusioned with all of the main parties for years. I choose a candidate I consider the best of a bad bunch etc., but even that is getting more difficult these days.

I am glad to hear that spoiled papers are definitely counted. I have seen them listed with the results of an election in our local papers.

I really don't see why there could not be a "none of the above" section listed on the ballot paper. Why does it have to be the name of a party in order to be listed? All that a lot of people I know want is an option to register their dissatisfaction, and it would serve that purpose, IMHO.

My mother once voted for The Official Monster Raving Loony Party at a by-election in her constituency. ShockGrin It was a protest vote. She did not expect Screaming Lord Sutch (who was then still leading it) to win. She would never have spoiled her ballot paper, but if there had been any other way of registering a protest she would have used it.

OOAOML · 13/02/2015 14:01

Just re-read the OP, and I am shocked by the OP's friend's assertion that no one actually counts the discrepancy between numbers turning up at the polling station and numbers of valid votes. I hope this person wasn't involved in running elections. Turnout and vote share is endlessly picked over by pundits and other election geeks.

And just to go back to the mechanism of counting - when I did it we had to start by verifying the votes in each box. They were counted at least twice (even if they tallied with the number of electors recorded) before we went on to sorting votes out into candidate piles. Once we'd finished counting those we would then check someone else's counting, and there would be lots of sitting about whilst the officers made sure all the numbers tallied. When the results are read out by the returning officer, they state the turnout, the number of votes for each candidate, and the number of rejected papers. It all has to add up.

tiggytape · 13/02/2015 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BreakingDad77 · 13/02/2015 14:19

tiggytape I am finding it hard to even 'half heartedly' vote for one.

BitOutOfPractice · 13/02/2015 14:20

That's exacty how I feel var

Fortunately I had a Labour candidate to vote for at the last General Election. I uumed and aahed abut voting Lib Dem because they come 2nd. So glad I didn't now!

BitOutOfPractice · 13/02/2015 14:30

OOAOML there won't be any pressure. The Tory majority is more than 22,000 Confused It really would be a waste of money