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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

School influencing political opinions on kids

110 replies

wonderingstar01 · 12/02/2015 21:09

At a recent options meeting at DDs school, two of the teachers presenting their subjects to a room full of parents and kids decided to voice their opinions about Michael Gove's changes to the Maths and English GCSE exam curriculum. One of the teachers really got on her soap box and spoke for a good 10 minutes about why the governments decisions were wrong. At the time I thought it was very inappropriate, regardless of the rights and wrongs of her argument.

DD comes home from school today to say they had a really good history lesson where their teacher told them that if the conservatives return to power again this election, they plan to radically change the curriculum which would affect DDs year from entering university. Including girls begin disallowed certain subjects, RE being abolished and replaced by daily church services, domestic science, needlepoint and looking after babies will be subjects reintroduced only for girls, non-christian pupils would read from a separate text in class and at the end of year 11 all the children would have their noses measured and if more than 5 centimetres they would be sent to a concentration camp in Germany.

Now I'm trying to understand how this conversation could have taken place in a positive way and for the benefit of learning, but I can't.

OP posts:

muminhants · 13/02/2015 08:26

I don't agree with everything Gove did and he clearly rubbed people up the wrong way but I don't understand all the hate. I saw an incredibly unprofessional letter on the website of a local secondary school slagging him off when he was replaced by Nicky Morgan. Government does interfere with education far too much but that's always been the case. Teachers are entitled to their political opinions but I'd be quite shocked if I found out a teacher was encouraging my son to vote for a particular party (or not).

Going off at a tangent somewhat, I don't like the changes to GCSEs in grades as it's just going to be confusing. All that needed to happen was to change the grade boundaries (NOT mid-year) so that an A* was truly outstanding, which was supposed to be the case in the first place.

But the Ebacc makes for a balanced curriculum. In my view all kids should do a balanced range of subjects at GCSE. I preferred humanities and had to do a science GCSE at school, so I don't see why those who prefer science should not have to do something outside their comfort zone either. There seems to be an emphasis on making sure everyone's a computing scientific genius but it simply won't work. And you still need lawyers and journalists and other non-scientific roles and for those you will be just as good with a History degree as you would be with a Chemistry degree. And languages are essential as well - it's embarrassing how bad we are at learning languages.

Andrewofgg · 13/02/2015 08:31

Nothing a teacher says to a pupil or a parent should make it possible to guess which way that teacher votes.

(And local governme staff should be subject to the same restrictions on political activities as central government staff, and former senior officials should be restricted for five years after they leave, starting with the former DPP, but that's another issue!)

Brandysnapper · 13/02/2015 08:41

Andrew it would certainly be possible to tell how many teachers weren't going to vote though, I don't imagine you'd need much (a few comments on human rights for example?) to make it clear you weren't voting UKIP.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 13/02/2015 08:57

I'm not sure it matters which party you use. In a way UKIP is probably less effective because they are already seen as an extreme right party. Since the point is to get the children to agree with the policies I can't really see how choosing the conservative party would have a massively negative effect. Maybe the teacher should stick to lib dems in the future though.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 08:58

This is why the Government is keen to allow teachers without PGCEs etc. and why the teaching unions resist this move - the teacher training courses are pretty much indoctrinating students and many of those that go on to become teachers see it as their mission to continue said indoctrination with pupils.

I agree with those that say you shouldn't really be able to tell how a teacher votes by their inter-actions with pupils - to do otherwise is unprofessional in the proper sense of the word.

I read politics at university and had a ridiculously left-wing tutor - proper Marxist, Socialist Worker chap who told us his views at the start of the course (on Marxism) but then throughout the course would repeatedly fight the other corner, to force us to think about the Marxist critique from a many angles as possible. He was great and we that weren't of his persuasion respected him all the more for it.

Good teachers can play devil's advocate in order to challenge their pupils and foster creative tension - bad teachers just blame the Tories.

Hakluyt · 13/02/2015 09:39

Interesting that nobody seems to object to teachers being openly Christian. Indeed they are actually required to be! Or at least, pretend to be.

Brandysnapper · 13/02/2015 09:44

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 13/02/2015 10:08

Are bad teachers just blaming the Tories, though? Or are they being blamed because they are the ones currently in charge of education and making a total fuck up of it? It's not like labour were never criticised.

Some of the Tory policies we're good, some were OK and some were a totally unforgivable attempt to score political points at the expense of children's education. If you are going to do that, then you deserve criticism. If we stopped using education as a political football in this country it would be a start.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 10:10

RafaIsTheKingOfClay

Yes, that's all very well and sure, every government deserves criticism of one sort or another but the point is that it is not teachers' place to criticise (or promote) any Government policy to their pupils.

They should be neutral and if they can't be then they are in the wrong job.

WillBeatFebruaryBlues · 13/02/2015 10:11

I heard on the radio that teaching colleges are hotbeds of socialism?

Andrewofgg · 13/02/2015 10:22

Wilts Higher education is another matter. Primary and secondary teachers must be neutral.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 10:34

Andrewofgg

Higher education is another matter. Primary and secondary teachers must be neutral.

Oh yes, I know that - my point was that even though we were at university and fully able to think for ourselves, this tutor was still able to argue any angle and we respected him more for doing so.

It's the fact that some primary and secondary teachers, despite knowing they should be neutral, appear unable to be so, that causes others to suspect that wilful indoctrination is their game.

SirChenjin · 13/02/2015 10:38

I would like to think that my DCs aren't paying to hear a lecturer or tutor giving their personal political opinions. I had no interest in hearing personal political opinions from my lecturers - it had no relevance to the subject I studied.

shovetheholly · 13/02/2015 10:40

Wow, when I read this thread I imagine half the posters typing away furiously with their tin foil hats on.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 13/02/2015 10:40

OP can you really not understand how the second example could have been positive and for the benefit of learning? Really?

I'm pretty sure I had the same lesson myself, although I can't remember what party name was used - and the fact I still remember the lesson rather than the party is telling, I think?

DopeyDawg · 13/02/2015 10:47

Like SirChenjin if you want examples of this REALLY happening then you should have been in Scotland during the IndyRef (and it's still going on via the Curriculum for Excrement too - everything viewed through a narrow ScotNat prism from Primary 1 onwards)

Wantsunshine · 13/02/2015 10:57

I remember 2 of my teachers at school trying to convince me that I would be voting for the wrong party and I should follow labour. In the end I pretended that they had changed my mind as I was worried about detention! One was an English lesson and one history. They put me off ever voting labour.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 10:58

Yes fair enough - to be clear, my point was that my lecturer, despite having made his own views obvious at the outset, was assiduous in ensuring we considered all perspectives and we always had to have evidence to back up our contributions. This, I think, is the approach we would all want to be adopted at a university.

At a school, it is different and teachers should keep their views to themselves.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 11:00

This is abuse. Teachers using their position of authority to instil a sense of fear in their pupils. Counter-productive in this instance, perhaps - but abuse nonetheless.

SirChenjin · 13/02/2015 11:07

This, I think, is the approach we would all want to be adopted at a university

Do you think we want that? I prefer to speak for myself rather than purporting to second guess what anyone else might want.

The approach that I want to be taken at a university is a mindfulness of the cost of a degree, with lecturers offering their personal opinions on anything only a)when asked, and b)when relevant to the subject taught.

QueenTilly · 13/02/2015 11:15

The lesson doesn't work if a major political party isn't named, especially in the run up to a general election.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 11:19

SirChenjin I suspect we might be in violent agreement on this!

I introduced the example from university as an example of how neutrality can be maintained, even when amongst students mature enough to choose for themselves.

In fairness to the lecturer in question, our knowing his own position helped guard us against possible bias and yet, even despite him forewarning us, he was still conscientious in offering up different views from across the political spectrum and beyond to force us to think differently.

Furthermore, and for the avoidance of doubt on the matter, the approach I think we would all want academics to adopt is that requirement that people offer up evidence to support their position, instead of mere opinion. Frankly I'm baffled that anyone would object to such an approach as this but each to their own.

SirChenjin · 13/02/2015 11:24

Oh dear - bafflement is never a good state to be in. Still, at least we do agree on the importance of 'each to their own'.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 13/02/2015 11:24

This is abuse. Teachers using their position of authority to instil a sense of fear in their pupils. Counter-productive in this instance, perhaps - but abuse nonetheless.

Erm, no, it isn't. It's maybe not a desired state, but it's not abuse.

WiltsWonder15 · 13/02/2015 11:24

QueenTilly

The lesson doesn't work if a major political party isn't named, especially in the run up to a general election.

Yes, that's a fair point but, for it to be carried out in a neutral fashion, how about throwing out the scenario that Labour wins, and bans racist, sexist or other 'offensive' words, introducing regulations that make it impossible to type offensive terms online or in print...to be followed up by cameras and microphones that detect their utterance in public or private spheres?

This might get people to think about the dystopian world of Orwell - 1984 and Animal Farm etc - and how far left politics always end up in political crimes, thought police and poverty for all.

If they did this, I might buy the argument that it's a legitimate teaching tool but, let's be honest, they wouldn't.

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