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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask for quick & urgent employment advice?

29 replies

JenPhill · 10/02/2015 15:27

I work for a global company (EMEA region) in - until recently - a team of 2. I was the Finance Advisor and my Manager was the Head of Finance. The company has made a few changes and due to demand a voluntary redundancy package was opened up to the employee's, which myself and my boss opted for. My Boss had hers accepted but I received an offer (that my Manager was aware of) of a retention bonus if i stayed. I accepted. Happy days.

I am now doing everything, ultimately 2 people's jobs. My boss was on (including bonus) near on 100,000 pounds. I hate to be crude, but this is an anonymous forum and these are the facts. I am on 40,000 if we hit our bonus potential. Our jobs very closely overlapped and there wasn't actually much she had to handover and I am managing to do both jobs very well, albeit being very busy.

I have not received any information about what is happening with our department going forward. I ultimately resent having to do 2 people's jobs for the same money when i know what my boss earned. (I see the salary's of everyone in the company due to the nature of my job).

I appreciate that she was older than me (I am 28 whereas she was 45 so she obviously had more experience in terms of years in the job), but still.

I just had a catch up with the overall director who is based in the US. She said: "How are you getting on in your new role?" to which i explained what was going on etc. I asked what the plan was for the department, would my boss be replaced etc? She said she didn't see that happening any time soon. I perhaps should have been a little more direct but didn't expect her to ask about "my new role".

I have another catch up with my old managers' manager (who i now report into). What would you say?? I am keen for this not to slip by.

Many thanks in advance

OP posts:
Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 15:28

oops - meant to say that my Boss (the one who left) was NOT aware of the retention bonus. It was kept confidential between me and her manager (the lady I am due to have the meeting with shortly!)

thx

OP posts:
Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 15:36

Any advice whatsoever would be massively appreciated before 4pm :)

Thanks!

OP posts:
DoJo · 10/02/2015 15:54

Sorry - no advice to give specifically, but I think it could be worth mentioning that you hope that your stepping up to do two jobs will be rewarded given that it is saving the company so much money. Did you negotiate at all over your retention bonus? And is it basically a golden handcuffs situation?

DoJo · 10/02/2015 15:54

Just realised the time - GOOD LUCK IN THE MEETING!

Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 15:56

Thanks so much DoJo - There was no negotiation. I need to be at the company for one year in order to qualify for the bonus.

OP posts:
Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 16:36

Meeting went well - as it's early days I didn't want to jump straight in and ask for a payrise as such.

She did say that "she never had any doubt I could rise to the challenge" and that i "am doing a great job". She commented that this is a great opportunity for me because I will overtake my peers (true, none of my friends of similar age from my course are in this position). I said that I was very grateful for the opportunity and was very excited by it. We left it at that.

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Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 17:06

Hi - Is it possible to get this moved to 'employment' section of forum, please?

Thanks

OP posts:
lougle · 10/02/2015 17:10

Did you not expect strings to be attached to a retention bonus?

Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 17:14

Hi Lougle - that wasn't my point - I was always fully aware that a retention bonus would require me to stay in the job for a given period of time. However my understanding is that this retention bonus (25% of current base salary) is not payment for taking on more work.

I was offered the retention bonus to encourage me to withdraw my application for voluntary redundancy. It was the same amount as I would have received had I been made redundant and I was happy to oblige and take it.

OP posts:
lougle · 10/02/2015 17:17

Yes, but you knew your boss was taking voluntary redundancy. Redundancy means that the post is no longer needed. What did you think would happen if your jobs largely overlapped and you were 60% cheaper than her?

Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 17:21

Yes but the work is still the same. And if she hadn't applied for VR she would still be here. Her position was never at risk but a decision was made to honour all requests.

I wasn't made aware that my boss was taking VR.

My main issue is that I have been given full ersponsibility for EVERYTHING. Ultimately, everything in the department comes to me. I have not been given an updated job spec, no idea what my title is etc etc.

Surely they need to address this? I was just wondering if it was better to leave it for a while and 'prove myself' or say something now. Surely only a mug would sit back and do all this for free without even asking what the situation is? I'm very keen to progress and am grateful for the opportunity to progress but frankly if i do it for free that's fucking fantastic for the company isn't it??

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Mumtotherescueagain · 10/02/2015 17:28

Oh dear, your employer has properly done you over. They pay off Ms £100 grand and get you to do the job for a one off extra £11 grand. Nice work them.

In your shoes I would try and negotiate an uplift of title, a formal recognition of your new responsibilities, an uplift in your basic salary too and then I would wait a year and take all that good stuff off to another company and use it to negotiate yourself a more senior position there. Your current employers did not pay off Ms £100 grand in order to then give you her job.

It's hard luck on you but turn it to your advantage.

lougle · 10/02/2015 17:37

Frankly, if there isn't much overlap and your contract has any phrases such as 'other duties as required' then they don't need to do anything.

The likelihood is that they've seen the opportunity to reduce their overhead by £90,000 in the first year and £100,000 thereafter. Even if they haven't, they can just bring in a junior assistant to take your overspill, reducing their overhead by £40,000-£60,000 per year.

I'm just wondering why it didn't occur to you to ask if your job was staying the same or changing? They could have refused your request. They didn't. In fact, they offered you 25% of your salary to stay.

You've been had, frankly. If you walk now, you lose the 25% bonus. If you stay, you've agreed by continuing to work that you will do what you are doing.

jollydad · 10/02/2015 17:50

From the point of view of getting a higher salary I don't think the meeting went well. You got a load of soft soap about what a great job you're doing. Then you agreed it was a great opportunity. As far as they're concerned you're happy with life.

How long do you have to stay to get the retention bonus? Theres not much chance of getting anything more before then as they know you're unlikely to leave.

If the retention bonus is paid in say 6 months time then after that ask for a rise. You're not going to get close to 100K, as theres no point in getting rid of 1 person on that salary and then promoting another to that level.

The way these things go though I suspect if you want to get a big rise you'll eventually need to leave. You can use the increased responsibiltiies you've taken on to make your CV better.

All in my opinion of course.

Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 18:52

Thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated.

I will definitely mention something formally - just a question of when and how.

When i was offered the retention bonus, it all happened very quickly. I was asked why i had opted for VR: i explained that although i love working for the company, i am conscious that there is no upward mobility unless my boss leaves and that the VP package was very generous and I am 28 y/o and that is worth a lot to me (no secret at work that my DH and I have rceny bought a house) and well, money is money. She understood. We're quite a friendly team and get along nicely, the company isnt too formal and stuffy.

I wasnt made aware of my manager's apication for VR until the deadline/announcement came. (fair enough, shes entitled to keep her business private). I wouldnt therefore have been able to negotiate/establish my position going forward.

Now of course i have taken on all her work and im windering "what now?" - sorry if that wasnt clear initially.

Thanks for your advice.

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Original poster
JenPhill · 10/02/2015 18:58

Also - when i was offered the retention i asked what the plans would be. My director (bosses boss with whom i had the meeting today) said that she didnt know at this stage. Its all since happended v quickly and i have just taken on all responsibility for, as i learned tody, the forseeable future and it is widely acknowledged that i have "taken over from X".

As an additional point- i am aware that other employees receive title change contract amendments and payrises have been given to people in similar circumstances (albeit not exactly the same in this case concerning VR) so i wouldnt struggle to come up with examples of how this comparaatively isnt fair. Not that i want to go down this route, mind.

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Malabrig0 · 10/02/2015 19:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

missymayhemsmum · 10/02/2015 19:54

You are doing both jobs and have shown that you can handle it. Once you have been in post long enough to make this clear, ask for a rise and a new JD.

Original poster
JenPhill · 11/02/2015 13:14

Thanks everyone. I am going to email her in a matter-of-fact way and enquire into whether she has any ideas about how my job will now be coded (this then triggers a domino effect of everything else being addressed because everything from salary to objectives are set in accordance with your JC).

Thanks

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 11/02/2015 13:21

Unfortunately you've been thoroughly done over and left to carry the work while they save a shedload of cash; all these remarks about "never doubting you could do it" and "overtaking your peers" don't come with pound signs attached, so they're easy to make but not of very much value

Personally I'd stick it for a while, use it to bump up your CV with some excellent remarks about how well you've managed then apply elsewhere

atticusclaw · 11/02/2015 13:22

You weren't offered a retention bonus to withdraw your application for VR. Any employer is free to reject any application for VR without paying a penny. You were offered your retention bonus to stay on and take a bigger role. By offering it as a bonus they avoided the cumulative effect of year on year pay increases.

It might not have been worded in that way but that's what it was. You are free to leave of course. Not meaning to sound harsh but you were a little naive to think it was just a bonus for nothing.

I'm an employment lawyer and see this fairly often. The risk the company takes is that it creates an equal pay issue somewhere but that risk is fairly low in more senior roles where roles and "value" can be easily differentiated.

OneHandFlapping · 11/02/2015 13:30

On the plus side, you can leave in a year, and say you were on £40k, and with a year of more responsibility on your CV. It could be a great boost to your career.

Original poster
JenPhill · 11/02/2015 13:32

Thanks atticusclaw. So in my position would you not bother mentioning it then? Seems odd not to imo but maybe i am being naive as has been suggested. There is a wider issue - which i didn't want to include in my initial post as i didn't want to detract from my main point - and that is I know for a fact that my boss had a number of complaints against her and they wanted to get rid of her.

Our organisation is very niche and it is not easy to recruit (I speak Arabic, French and German which is v necessary for the role).

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atticusclaw · 11/02/2015 13:41

TBH I wouldn't mention anything this year since I think in their eyes the retention bonus was to compensate you for the fact that you would be taking on a larger role (and in fact I suspect with a 25 percent increase in pay they probably view the bonus as compensating you for a couple of years). Perhaps next year I would raise it and say that you appreciate that you received a one off bonus for 2015 but the role is now much larger than it was previously and you don't believe your salary is competitive. They are then IMO more likely to take the approach seriously rather than being annoyed at you appearing to have pocketed the "free" bonus and still expecting a pay increase.

I think you have to be careful how you play these things.

Original poster
JenPhill · 11/02/2015 13:51

Thanks for the advice. I will still question my job code and job title (otherwise my job title will not be relevant AT ALL to what I am doing and render the 'experience' completely useless from a new employers' point of view). I mean what new employer would take me seriously in this situation? So you took on 2 peoples' jobs but kept the same job title?!

I appreciate what you are saying and you are right. Although HR and Finance are grossly underpaid in comparison to the rest of the company. Some positions are paid absurd amounts of money for absolutely no other reason than they asked for it. There is a huge culture of this at my organisation which is why i feel stupid for not saying anything.

At the very least I think it is utterly bizarre that no thought WHATSOEVER has been given to the fact that I have not received any information at all about my role other than the information that I am expected to do my job and now my old bosses'.

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