To think Nursery should have tried to contain chickenpox better?!

[Pengyquin]

No notice up in nursery that it was even doing the rounds. Found out on social media.

One member of staffs little girl was affected badly, and said member of staff came back to work 3 days later into a different room (my son's) Children from initial 'outbreak' room were taken to a new room (my son's) to save on staffing costs (I presume) at the end of one of the days.

Nursery have pretty much shrugged and seemingly are of the attitude, it's just chickenpox.

Well, it isn't 'just' chickenpox if you're pregnant and not immune or if you (or someone in your family) has a compromised immune system. Plus, a family friend of ours, her little girl died (aged 4) of chickenpox, so it's a matter close to the heart.

Just been informed that it is now in my son's room.

Or should I just accept it's one of those things and highly likely that we will get it.

I just think they should have tried to contain it in the one room. Not mix kids from room to room. The worker is probably irrelevent - I don't think you can pass on cp just because you've been caring for someone who has it?

I'm probably just really annoyed because we have a holiday booked next week that I can see being cancelled now!

DisappointedOne this study suggests that it is not the case that increased vaccination for chickenpox is to blame for increased incidents of shingles. And shingles itself can now be vaccinated against.

www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/news/20131202/chickenpox-vaccine-not-responsible-for-rise-in-shingles-study-says

The nursery absolutely have a duty to inform parents of any contagious disease a child in the nursery has.

Vaccinating against measles hasn't stopped measles though either, so that's hardly a reason not to vaccinate.

I read an account where a lady who had a son who (for medical reasons) couldn't have the mmr vaccine. She said the biggest risk to her son was children who had the mmr and then mixed about with other children, as the shredding caused measles. (I can't quite recall the science behind this bit) but she said it is clear in the mmr vaccine leaflet that you shouldn't let you child mix with other children for 6 weeks after. Now, we all now that no one adhers to that. This was in the States, not the UK though.

Absolutely agree with Italiangreyhound. We live in the US and my children have had CP and flu vaccines as standard here. When DD was born, in the UK, in 2011, rotavirus wasn't a standard vaccine. She ended up in hospital twice with gastroenteritis. A rotavirus vaccine, which has been standard in the US for years, would have stopped this. Guess what happened the next year in the UK? Babies started to be given rotavirus vaccines as standard... It still baffles me that the UK won't vaccinate against diseases that are easily controlled when other developed western nations do. And this is going to get me flamed, but I absolutely agree with the compulsory vaccination that is in place here in the US.

Pengy one can shed live virus after acquiring the wild measles virus, but I am not aware of any shedding risk after having the vaccine, especially given the vaccine doesn't cause the disease.

I can't find any evidence that there is a risk of viral shedding after MMR vaccination.

Sidge I hadn't heard of it before either, but this woman was adament (she wasn't anti MMR I might add, her son literally couldn't have it, something cancer wise, serious in any case) ..said she'd been told that by many paeds in the US.

I did think that the vaccine did actually give you measles though? Albeit in a very very low dose? Or else, why are measles symptoms a side effect?

it is clear in the mmr vaccine leaflet that you shouldn't let you child mix with other children for 6 weeks after

Does it? I had no idea.

But with regard to CP, I'm sorry OP, you either care enough and move heaven and earth to get your child immunised, or you don't and let them catch it naturally.

I took the decision to let it happen naturally, but if it hadn't by the DC's teens then I would get them immunised. They both caught it naturally.

However it is frequent exposure to the CP virus which boosts our immunity. The 'segregation' that we have now, between the young and the elderly, means that far less of the elderly are likely to come into contact with children who have CP. As a result, the incidence of shingles has already increased. In the US where they do vaccinate the incidence of shingles has increased to an even greater extent.

So even if you get CP naturally, unless you come into contact with the virus frequently you lose some of your immunity, so no different to if you have the immunisation.

From the NHS website:

Post-vaccination symptoms [of the MMR] are not infectious, so your child will not pass anything on to non-vaccinated children.

But with regard to CP, I'm sorry OP, you either care enough and move heaven and earth to get your child immunised

I'm sorry, what? Because i don't have £300, I don't care enough??!

What sort of a stupid comment is that? It's a hell of a lot of money to me.

We've just had the vaccine done for £70 total, have you checked the price yourself OP?

Yanbu to expect a notification that it's doing the rounds.

It's a hell of a lot of money to everyone. How much money would you potentially lose if they caught CP? (just the lotions to ease the itching etc will set you back a bit). How much money would you potentially lose if they got any of the side effects which you fear?

Yes it's a hell of a lot of money, but it's not like you have to come up with it in one day - you have presumably been fearing this for some time. And the chances of them coming across CP is INEVITABLE.

The preschool should put up a sign letting parents know but CP has a 10-14 day incubation period with no signs of infection which is why it is so contagious.

The day I picked up my DS from nursery and saw the sign saying there was a case of chicken pox was also the day he came out with spots that evening.

You can get the vaccine way cheaper than £300. If catching chicken pox is so thing you def not want your child to catch then you need to pay.
Funny, people spend thousands on cars and holidays and Xmas presents but when it comes to health they have no money.

The £300 was because the op has 2 children, in most places the vaccine is around £120-£140 (I don't know what area you are in WD41, but £70 for both jabs is unusually cheap!)

CP has a 10-14 day incubation period with no signs of infection which is why it is so contagious. - the incubation period is up to 21 days from exposure to chicken pox, but the disease is infectious from 2-3 days before the spots come out until they are stabbed over - not 10-14 days before.

I agree though we believe in spending more on safer car seats. They are a lot more expressive, friends say they can't afford it but would love to have them, but still go on holiday. OP said she was going on holiday soon what is more important?
Also if you are working bearing in mind you'd have to take at least a week off work (could be upto 10 days each) with both children. Still pay childcare but possibly not get paid by work unless your really lucky then it could make senses to get them vaccinated anyway. Unless you have someone else who can look after them for that time.

Not that it's anyones business, but the holiday is free. We are staying with relatives. We haven't had a proper holiday in over 10 years. We drive one car which is 22 years old. We own one laptop which is over 10 years old and a pay as you go mobile. Christmas presents - the children got 2 each, both second hand off ebay. Me and DH got nothing.

So no. I don't prioritise OTHER things over my child's health. The holiday is 'booked' as in, I have time booked off work.

£300 is the price for 2 kids to be vaccinated here. I have enquired at a lot of different places.

£300 is £300 I don't have.

tiggy Your post was very clear and helpful. Thank you.

Still no sign yet. I guess overall i am being unreasonable. Guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

Wibblypiglikesbananas, I see your point and perhaps you are right. However when I looked into paying for the CP vacc for dd, I decided against it. It typically wears off after 10-15 years, and it is much worse to get CP as an older adult, especially if pregnant. It seems better to let them build natural immunity.

I am not a big fan of vacc though. You say your child had gastro twice, but I honestly don't know anyone who had a baby with gastro, and from what I have read bf provides similar protection to a vacc.

Here I go being a foreigner again, but I'm baffled. Surely the question isn't whether the nursery should have notified parents but why they have children present when ill? (I do notice the government link posted higher up says to keep children away from nursery till the spots scab over.) Yes, I do realise this is problematic for working parents, and yes, I do realise people are infectious a couple of days before breaking out in spots, but obviously, the longer they are out in public the more other children they will infect. And no one goes out in public with any infectious disease beyond a cold, no matter how minor it seems to them. So no, you should not expect to catch CP in the shops: no one with CP should be in the shops.

Why is the nursery housing sick children who should be at home? Is this the result of employers not giving parents time off when children are sick? Isn't this, rather than the nursery's posting or not posting a notice, the problem?

You've missed something CHJR - although to be fair nobody has bothered to spell it out on the thread because we all take it for granted. The nursery will not take children who are known to be contagious with chicken pox. Any school or nursery will call parents to collect as soon as spots are noticed and then require them to stay at home until all the spots are scabbed over.

We're saying it's inevitable that children will catch it because it is so extraordinarily contagious that it's impossible to wipe out in the population without mass vaccination of almost everyone, and given that it is out there in the wild, a single carrier will occasionally bring it into the nursery, and infect a couple of others in the two day "contagious but not symptomatic" period and those two will infect another four within their own CBNS period and so on and so on.

Thanks, Lady. That eases my mind a bit!

My three were all vaccinated but ALL got CP anyway, and not in the same year, either. CP is a real pita.

MissDuke - just because you don't know anyone whose children have had gastroenteritis, doesn't mean my DD didn't have it! And I BF her and her brother to 16/17 months. BF certainly wasn't a vaccine alternative in my experience.

You make a fair point about immunity wearing off. As far as I understand from my children's pediatrician, they will have another vaccine later on.