To think going to Uni isn't the be all and end all?

[CatThiefKeith]

And that it is perfectly possible to have a decent life, get a good job and a reasonable standard of living without having gained a degree?

Obviously for some jobs a degree is essential, but Aibu to think that it's not for everyone, and not being academic enough to go to Uni doesn't mean you are doomed to never do well in life?

It's not the be all & end all. I gave friends who didn't do degrees earning higher than me and I do have a good degree from a prestigious university.

However I think it's fair to say that unless you go down the self employed entrepreneur route you may hit a ceiling quicker than a degree educated person.

I only really got my carear on track late in my late 20's & I've a 6 month baby so I'm going back part time but at least I'm staying with my employer who offers fabulous progression opportunitie so my employment future is still bright, IMO.

I think it's dangerous though for children to think people like Richard Branson are common & that they can be as successful as him without much of an education. He is an exceptionally successful man whereas not many people will achieve that in their life.

Saying that what I Intend to teach my DC's is that hard work pays off, be it an apprenticeship, degree pathway or anything else that's available when the time comes.

Depends in the course you do, obviously. It's not essential, but I'm happy I did, best years of my life! I'd still be able to do the job I have, so it hasn't helped me that way but 18-23 were brilliant years!

No it is not the be all and end all

But not having a degree limits you from my experience

I shall have mine soon and aware that more doors are open to me

DS beleives that university is where you go after school and for him hopefully it will be i shall certainly be very much pushing encouraging him to go he too is going to be medical Doctor he may become a scientist too

I fully agree. I have an undergrad, masters and PhD but I'm the only one in my office with a degree. We all bring different things to the table and have knowledge and experience which informs our separate roles.

My DM is a retired teacher and despairs at the practice of trying to make everyone (both school leavers and employers) that you need university. She was the only academic one in her family and thus went to university (in the 70s). Her brothers didn't even consider it, but both have good careers which they're very skilled at. DM can't talk enough about how academic intelligence isn't the only intelligence worth acknowledging but we've all become convinced that it is.

Out of my friends the one of us in the best job earning the most money is the only one without a degree. The one earning the least has the 'best' degree.
That said we are all 40, I suspect the workplace is different now.

I am at Uni now as a mature student. I am asked daily if I regret not doing it straight from school. I was more than capable but to my parents horror I simply couldn't be arsed! I wanted to have a bit of fun, no pressure, lots of holidays, buy a house... all the things I would have had to put off for Uni. I am the only person I have spoken to that is doing a degree for interest and not either because they didn't know what else to do or for a career path. Actually, I would say most on my course (history) are doing it because they didn't know what else to do.

It does seem a basic requirement now for most jobs though, aren't they powers that be going to be offering student loans at the same rates and levels as undergrad for masters student under 30 from Sept 16... because a degree isn't enough now... says it all!

I hope my kids go at some point, for the enjoyment of learning and the experience. I'd like them to go straight from school just to put off working for a bit longer. We will be working until we drop so the later it starts the better. Plus they will have longer to decide what they would like to do.

Going to university is absolute must have for some very specialist areas like medicine, law, architecture etc but for most jobs you could just as easily enter at the bottom with GCSEs or a levels and work your way up.

Another point is that there has definitely been inflation in terms of job requirements. I have plenty of friends with degrees doing jobs (which now require a degree) which used to be done by people with only A-levels. There are also jobs which now require PhDs which used to only require a good degree.

gamer widow I actually don' think what you say is true for most jobs. If you loo at graduate opportunities now, the bottom rung of the ladder requires a degree. (I mean that it is a requirement of the job not that it is actually necessary to do the work). The "specialist" areas that you talk about are also huge; actuarial, academia, banking, management consultancy, advertising, lab work all will require a degree.

YANBU - it's not the be all and end all. However, it is important.

I'm from an area with low uptake to higher education and there are job opportunities here for people without degrees. However, salaries are very low.

I'm glad I went and have spent most of my career since working abroad.

In a lot of the countries, I wouldn't have been able to get a work visa without having a degree.

I am now studying for a part-time Masters as my career has taken me in a different direction from my undergrad. The career I want to do needs professional qualifications.

My DBro didn't go as it would have been a total waste of money for him. Now at 23, he does see his earning potential is lower than friends of his who went to university and studied engineering etc.

I am currently processing applications at work for the lowest rung of our jobs, which require 5 x GCSE passes at A-C. The vast majority of the applicants have degrees, and some also have Masters. It is very sad and you can read the desperation in their CVs.

If they get in they will be filing and printing .

One of my DC went through University and graduated with a 2:1 but has only worked at temp jobs since. 2 went to University and didn't graduate; one failed the final exams and didn't go back so has nothing to show for 4 years work, the other dropped out after a term. One gave up A levels halfway through.

We are now finding it is the A levels that are important for you to get on, and the lack of them has closed lots of doors. Lack of a degree hasn't held the other 2 back and they've never been out of work.

YANBU. A friend did a one-year executive PA diploma and now earns much much more than I ever could with my postgrad.

My DSs are gearing up for it now. They're both keen which I'm pleased about because DH & I had such a fantastic time at Uni I'd feel sad if they missed the opportunity.
FWIW lotst of people I know didn't go and have gone to very successful careers.

The thing I have made clear to my DS who doesnt plan to go on to A levels and university is that sitting around doing nothing isnt an option. He has to do something. I dont want him to drift. Once he is 18 and supporting himself then he can drift but on my watch he needs to have focus.

So I just went to a networking talk with women who left my industry to do other "interesting" things. They are all in their 40s and 50s. My impression is that it was much easier to get places based on experience or personality 20 years ago than today. The economy was better. Industries were growing and were less rigid.

It's sort of silly to try to equate the experience of Gen Xs and baby boomers to kids who are 18 today. Though, my advice to an 18 year old of today is to learn to code asap no matter what else you do.

Also, I think that the days of life long employment are over. You are now the commodity, not the place you work. We also live in a much more global world. So "working your way up" may come unstuck if you need a foreign visa, or your company is bought out.

Lastly, there are kids who drop out of uni or never go because they are Thiel Fellows/Mark Zuckerberg and then kids who just don't go to uni. My impression is that if you are an engineering whizkid who is genius level smart, well connected and ambitious, you can make piles of money without uni and no one will care.

I didn't get a degree and was told by my Dad that I wouldn't get any where without one. I so wish he was alive today, so I could show him how wrong he was.

I started at the very bottom and worked my way up in my profession (HR/L and D) by being ambitious, confident and doing professional qualifications whilst I worked. A lot of my colleagues have a degree, but it hasn't really made any difference in our field of work. I earn more money than my friends and family, who have a degree. For me, the most important things were about having the drive and determination to do well, mixed with a lot of personal development and happily taking on new tasks and roles to help me learn.

However, there are a lot of jobs that you cannot do without a degree, so it is very important for some people. My DS (who is 9) talks about being a dentist or a teacher, so for him, going to Uni (at this stage) is just something you do after going to college. He talks about Uni as if it is just a natural thing that he will do.

Did anyone hear the dr's on the radio talking about not being able to get a mortgage due to their student loans being too high? (not overdrafts etc but the actual student loans). They said nobody warned them of that 7 or 8 years ago when they took them out. Presumably lending criteria has changed, but I wonder if people are being warned of that now.

YANBU, DS's has just chosen his options and is one of few who appears to have chosen subjects useful to him in what he wants to do as a job rather than what will help him get into Uni - something he has no desire to do.
His school fortunately seem to have stopped pushing the Uni or bust attitude. Some young people want to work, some aren't suited to years of extra study and there are plenty of opportunities to study later on if that's what they want to do.

My brother has failed to finish two undergrad courses, both times finishing in first year. Both times because it wasn't what he wanted to do enough. I have a PhD. We earn pretty much the same (fairly decent) salary, and both do jobs we enjoy.

Idontseeanysontarans that is fortunate.

It was the opposite for my DS. We went along to a post 16 options evening and for non-A level students the choice was strictly limited.

It was also very under informed. DS (who is applying to join the Army) was asked why he wasnt applying to go to Welbeck. The person asking this was head of 6th yet didnt seem to know that:

a. the GCSE requirement was far greater than DS is predicted to achieve
b. Welbeck isnt free

It was a silly, uninformed suggestion.

The stage just before starting full time employment is hugely important. It doesnt matter whether that stage is at 16, 18 or 21. IMO the students looking to go into apprenticeships at 16 need the most advice yet get the least.

Gnome it's a very recent change - when we were looking at high schools the message from both local schools was all about University and next to nothing about any other career path.
He only made the decision very recently tbh and out of his friends he's the only one not assuming that he will go onto HE after college.

I would like to make a very old-fashioned divide between the instrumental side of uni (having a piece of paper that says 'I woz ere for 3 years') and the educational side of things, i.e. the experience of studying a subject in depth for 3 years.

Yes, you can get on perfectly well in the world without that piece of paper. And these days, when it comes with so much debt attached, that is worth reflection.

However, I think I would be immeasurably the poorer without the enrichment of education. (I'm not saying it's only available at uni, especially with all of the amazing internet resources around these days! But uni is perhaps a more fun place to get it). To be able to study something that you really love intensively, to lose yourself in it and to be fascinated by ideas, is frankly one of the most challenging adn amazing experiences I've ever had. I also think that it's the basis of a stronger sense of selfhood and a more developed sense of how the world fits together. I feel tremendously privileged to have had it. It's not just about what you learn - it's about a whole way of being in the world, of living authentically and thoughtfully according to your lights. To give an example, I've been quite unwell recently and it's been reading and thinking that have got me through long and painful days where I would otherwise have been very lonely. To open a book and be able to have a (one-sided) conversation with someone brilliant and long dead is an amazing thing. Education allows you to appreciate it more fully - whether it's done via the internet at home or at a uni. You get better drinking opportunities and more fun at uni, though!