To think that " freelance" will become the new zero hours contracts?

[Hoppinggreen]

Posted on Freelancers but not much going on over there.
Anyone else getting increasingly worried about " employers" advertising roles as Freelance when they are blatantly employed positions but the employers want to opt out of giving people employee benefits and rights?
There are several jobs advertised on here that are supposed to be freelance but really aren't and there are always people on the employment boards asking about how to set up as a freelancer having being offered what should be an actual employed job.
Does HMRC ever check these things? It's depriving people of basic employment protection but when people are desperate for work they will probably go for it.

HMRC does check. I am freelance - I have one major client who I work for four days a week and several smaller clients who take up the other day. Without working for more than one client HMRC would come down on the 'main' client like a tonne of bricks. As a result, my major client actively encourages me to take on other work and often refers clients to me to make sure I don't break that rule.

It is shit that I don't get employee benefits - lack of maternity benefits has been particularly hard - however there are pros to freelancing. If I want to take the afternoon off to take my son to the beach I can, and there's no much my client can do about it. I can take as much time off for holiday as I like (although obviously I don't get paid for it) and I am paid above market rate as a freelancer than I would be as an employee to counter the lack of security and lack of benefits. I appreciate not all freelancers are this lucky.

This has been going on for ages. Two of my closest family have been on contracts for 20 odd years, working at the same place, doing the same job, but with no benefits like sickness or holiday pay. They are contracts that give 38 hours a week, although they can be terminated for no reason with a weeks notice, and pay a slightly higher hourly rate than they would otherwise.

I don't think this is anything new.

I am actually a Freelancer myself but I have more than one client and work from him mostly with visits to client sites sometimes. I am actually a ltd company as well.
Maybe it isn't anything new but it's just that I've become more aware of it on here.

completely standard fayre in my industry. had been at least the ten years iv been doing it, i know it's been going on longer. buggar all i can do about it if i want any money, often less than minimum wage but a the job im at now at least there is a certain amount of freedom with when i work

Two of my closest family have been on contracts for 20 odd years, working at the same place

There is a good chance that they are legally classed as workers and are therefore entitled to 28 days paid holiday per year, SSP and other employment rights.

I think people need to be proactive and understand the distinction - being a freelancer is great, so long as that is what you actually are. Anyone who thinks that they are actually employed should make that known, either to their employer or to HMRC.

Yes this abuse of the term 'freelance' happens in some industries. My dp has been in jobs like that. He was expected to behave like an employee i.e. work for them exclusively, didn't get to pick and choose his own hours or projects. But he had to do his own tax and had zero job security.

You should only be treated as a freelancer if you don't pass the workers' test. That's the distinction a lot of companies wilfully ignore...

What is the workers test?

IR35
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/mongolia/11387391/Mongolian-scientists-study-200-year-old-mummified-monk-who-is-still-alive.html

Oh, no! That was still on my clipboard from yesterday!
www.sjdaccountancy.com/about/ir35_advice.html

www.gov.uk/ir35-find-out-if-it-applies

Workers have to be mummified and still alive?

I was once unknowingly in that position ("self-employed" in a job), but since the company turned out to have been fiddling tax/NI, I don't now regret it, as at least tax was paid on what I earned!

Mandatory meditation at work means you're an employee and so IR35 applies, Empress.

In my field freelance means you get paid twice as much as an employee, so I've never wanted to be one.

In general (i.e. on average over the long-term ignoring any temporary market dislocations) if a healthy job-market exists for both employees and freelancers in a given field, the freelancers must be paid more to compensate for the disadvantages.

Hoppinggreen please don't ever use the terminology "I am a ltd company". You aren't. The whole point of a ltd company is that it is its own legal entity seperate from any individual.

Hoppinggreen please don't ever use the terminology "I am a ltd company". You aren't. The whole point of a ltd company is that it is its own legal entity seperate from any individual.

In fairness, I think anyone who understands the distinction knows what is meant by the term - using shorthand to describe your position doesn't change the way the law operates.

There are posters who think their family members aren't employees after 20 years. Hoppinggreen might use that terminology in real life too.

I use "I am a limited company" even though I have one other employee. I understand the actual legal situation.

I am the only person who generates any revenue as my company specially sells my personal services.

Specifically, not specially.

You are not, and cannot be a limited company. If selling services professionally it makes you look a bit dim to say that.

My husband and I are directors of a ltd company which sells our specific services. Nether of us would ever use "we are/I am a limited company".

I don't care if somebody thinks I look "a bit dim." The customers don't know or care how I keep my books and what I do with the cash. (They likely assume I pay no tax at all. I don't care.) I understand how a ltd company works and my reason for forming one was because I have reasons to want to be an employee rather than self-employed.

I just think it's a silly thing to get upset over if someone describes their business in terms of "I'm a limited company." I'm sure they understand exactly what they are and what they are doing.

In the businesses we're in its probably the difference between £450 and £750 a day. ;)