Driver not using signal, blaming pedestrian. Who's right?

[MorrisZapp]

I get really pissed off with drivers failing to signal when turning, as a pedestrian how else am I supposed to know they're planning to turn?

I was walking along a wee street the other day, let's call it Acacia Avenue. I came to a junction. As no cars were signalling to turn, it looked clear for me to cross so I did. As I stepped out, a car turned the corner, with no signal on, and the driver clearly thought I was being careless as she mouthed something unfriendly at me.

Looking back, I was wondering if she was in the right because that junction doesn't lead anywhere (it's a small maze of very narrow streets tucked in behind the city centre) and that there are possibly 'no entry' signs meaning that the turn she took was the only way she could legally go. So she felt no need to signal.

Surely even if legally you can only go in one direction, if that means making a turn into another street and there are pedestrians on the pavement, you should signal?

Both in the wrong. Driver should signal, obviously, but you can't assume that they're not going to turn so should wait for them to pass rather than turn. Nobody's perfect and occasionally people forget to indicate, so better to be careful IMO.

Ah, just read that the only other road was no entry. Where else did you think she was going to go?

"Steam gives way to sail"

Pedestrians always take priority.

But bear in mind pedestrians aren't wrapped in a tonne of steel.

It's been many years since I studied the Highway Code but I'm pretty sure that a motorist turning into a side road has to give way to any pedestrians already crossing that road.

Common sense & decency would also dictate that TBF.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will come along soon, but I have had this conversation with my dh in the past, and he assured me then, that drivers have to indicate for the benefit of other road users, and that this does not include pedestrians.

I always indicate, even if there is no traffic around - I do it automatically, so I probably do indicate when there is no need, but I'd rather do that than fail to indicate when it was necessary.

And whether or not the driver had a responsibility under the Highway Code, to indicate so that you knew she was turning into Acacia Avenue, the fact that she didn't indicate means that it was not your fault that you didn't know she was going to turn in, and she shouldn't have been unfriendly towards you.

you shouldn't rely on people's signals.It as a curtesy to indicate, an indication but that is all.In insurance cases if you pull out because a driver is signalling to pull in, you would be in the wrong not him

Obviously drivers have to give way to any pedestrian on the road, but cars can't stop in an instant, can they?

Even if it is the only turn you can legally take, if there are other roads, you should signal.

I don't think you were doing anything wrong in crossing either. The road you were crossing had no vehicle on it and no indication that there would be a vehicle on it.

I agree with robot, when crossing the road I am always looking for any indication of someone turning into the road. There are other signs like a car slowing down or moving position in the road (depending on the road). But yes the driver should have signalled too, it's true that some people make mistakes and forget but there are also those who very rarely signal or signal as they are making the manoeuvre which I find very annoying.

If it was the only way she could go, then you were in the wrong. Though, obviously it would help to know what the road signs and markings were.

From the HC (which is online in full if ever you need to prove DH wrong)

Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see ‘Signals to other road users’), of your intended actions. You should always

• give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
• use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
• cancel them after use
• make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
• use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority.

You were in the right.

But the op wasn't already crossing the road. otherwise whether he signalled or not would have been irrelevant.
In this country cars have priority over pedestrians for safety reasons

Just to be clear, it is a four way junction but the other two ways lead to dead ends. However, there is a constant stream of vehicles using each dead end for deliveries and to park. Lots of drivers pull up to that junction and stop, in confusion.

Rule 170 from the HC: You MUST give way to pedestrians who have started to cross.

How fast do people turn into side roads that they couldn't stop? And, given the above, why wasn't the driver looking out for pedestrians?

Can't say I've ever had a problem stopping for someone to continue crossing like this .

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will come along soon, but I have had this conversation with my dh in the past, and he assured me then, that drivers have to indicate for the benefit of other road users, and that this does not include pedestrians.

I'd say you are right since the highway code states:

"103
Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see ‘Signals to other road users’), of your intended actions. You should always

give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
cancel them after use
make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority."

So there were still 3 possible ways for the car to go then?

Normally cars have priority except on a pedestrian crossing and turning into a junction.So if you had already started crossing when the car turned in, I think it was your right of way

Yes, if you are already on the road, it's your right of way. But next time possibly just wait a few seconds, especially if its a confusing junction anyway!

TooHasty, yes the OP states that she had already stepped out as the car turned the corner.

Where's the cut off point?

SDTG - my driving instructor was very emphatic about signals being for the benefit of pedestrians too.

As a pedestrian I always check what a driver is planning to do.

A couple of weeks go I was crossing a side road at a junction (both small roads, not main roads). The car travelling in the opposite direction stopped on the other side of the junction. I noted that he was not indicating , so assumed he was planning to go straight ahead and started to cross the road. He then wound down the window and yelled 'Oh, don't say thanks when a driver lets you go, then!' in a nasty way. I said I had no idea he had 'let me go' as he wasn't signalling that he would have crossed across my path anyway!

He responded with an impoliteness.

Drivers should always signal for the benefit of pedestrians.

But pedestrians would be unwise to rely on drivers observing the highway Code, common sense or courtesy.

Regardless of right and wrong, humans are a tad squishy compared to steel, and the last thing you want is your loved ones standing by a headstone which reads "Here lies xxx... They were in the right, but they're still dead".
Pedestrians look after yourself; drivers, we all have a duty of care... Just be safe and considerate.

Wot she said ^

never trust drivers to do as indicators say. Same as if you are waiting to come out of a junction and it looks as if you can go because the approaching car is signalling to turn in. You don't move until their wheels actually start to turn because they may be too stupid/drunk/on the phone to notice the indicator.

as for the OP - 'I had right of way' doesn't help as an epitaph. Assume nothing!

I would normally look for other signs, mainly the car slowing down, but it was going slowly anyway as it's a narrow cobbled street.

the indication thing is a it of red herring leglly....all the HC does is state 'should' - as loads of posters have said, its effectively a courtesy (though personally i have reserved a special hell for people who give such a little fuck about others they cant even be bothered to move their finger a half inch to indicate which way their ton of moving death vehicle is heading next)

Had you been hit by the car, it would almost definitely have gone 100% fault for the driver - they have a greater duty of care to not run you over (whether that's right or wrong is another debate). There need to be serous mitigating factors for the ped to be found at fault and it is very rare.

but what minus2 said is by far the best answer here. being in the right, but dead, would suck!