To be seriously considering using donor embryos?

[Notmymuse]

We've tried ivf with icsi and it's failed three times, likely because of the embryo quality. We have male factor infertility officially but icsi should have got round this so wondering if there's an issue with my eggs too as the embryos didnt do brilliantly. I'm 31 and have no known fertility problems.

We are now considering using donor embryos. Dh is strongly for this. For me, I'm not 100%. I know I don't want to adopt, being pregnant and giving birth is very important to me personally.
However I'm really struggling with this. It feels very selfish in lots of ways. Maybe I'm just not meant to have a baby? Maybe this is just not meant to be and I should accept it.

If this was your only chance of conceiving would you give it a go? Or just try to move on?

No I did three short protocols.

11 eggs each time after 10 days stimming, at least 9 fertilised with ICSI on each cycle but they were all slow to develop.

I had acupuncture the first cycle and that was our worst cycle. By day 3 we only had one embryo where it should be. The next two cycles we had a few embryos at 6/7 cells by the morning of day 3 and two were put back each time but none of the remaining ones made it to blast so I didn't think it looked great for the ones I'd had returned. We've both tried vitamins, neither of us smoke and I don't drink at all. DH drinks occasionally but not whilst we were having treatment.

A lot is unknown I think, it's luck a lot of the time. The clinic gave me 30 - 40% chance of success each cycle.

My mum is one of my main concerns, she keeps telling me it will be a big mistake. It's stupid because I would never see someone with a donor child or adopted child as the child not being "theirs" but my mum keeps telling me the baby won't look anything like me and dh and people will ask questions and it won't be anything like us etc etc.

hello notmy muse .while i have no personal experience of this i can honestly say if it was me then yes i would grab the oppurtunity with both hands .if all went well you would carry this baby and give birth to it so of course it would be yours .my friend who has been through this was once given a poem .it said family is someone who is willing to stand by you in good times and bad .who loves you and who you love .i hope it works out for you

as far as not looking alike goes .i look nothing like my parents .i am quiet and gentle my parents were loud and brash .blood can,t prevent that .thats just luck of the draw .

I don't feel my children are 'mine' because they came from my eggs.

They feel like 'mine' because I have loved and cared for them from birth. I find it incredibly hard to link the children in front of me with the kicks/scans of pregnancy, and even less so with my having ovulated and DH's sperm fertilising that egg! I truly believe our bonds are because of the time we have spent together, rather than genetics.

It's nice seeing family resemblances coming through, but the children are all so unique in their own right that these traits are just fun to see: the 'real' personality is much more interesting!

Go for it. Once you have that baby, the egg s/he came from will cease to be of importance.

I'm just finished putting my toddler girl and 3mnth old twins to bed. All conceived from donor eggs. My family is a little scientific miracle, and there is so much love.
I promise you won't regret it.

I would say go for it, but only after you have explored and understood all the reasons your own egg/sperm aren't working. From the above information it doesn't appear like you have had all your questions answered by the clinic. I would suggest the london women's clinic they were amazing.

You should definitely get some more investigations done, including genetic (karyotype) testing. It took us seven years of treatments including four ICSIs at a top London fertility clinic and investigations at St Mary's recurrent miscarriage clinic for them to eventually figure out that the problem was genetic. In my opinion, clinics are too quick to blame egg quality and often discount genetic or male factors. You're very young for egg quality to be an issue; whatever the problem is, you need to find out so you can make an informed decision.

I would recommend 'sitting' with the decision to use DE for a month or two, keep the communication channels open with DH, and also consider the implication for that potential child. They may or may not have full genetic siblings elsewhere in the UK and although I have limited knowledge of these matters I have given it some thought. I think DCN sounds like it is a great resource to tap into, I understand they link with families and also have conferences including DC children and their perspective. I read Olivia's blog every so often, she's (I think) one of the founders of DCN, or at least somewhere in the machinery, and thats given me some extra insight into these things.

Our story: male factor issues found after a couple of miscarriages, first IVF didn't work (using DP's sperm). We then used donor sperm for the next IVF cycle, got pg with Miss now21 months and also got 3 embryos for the freezer. As I can't imagine we will replace all 3 (2 kids would be our max) I gave some thought to donating the embryos on, and the implications for that child as well as DD. Initially the thinking was all about DP and I and what we could do with the extra embryos, yet this affects more than just us 2. How will DD feel knowing that she could have a brother or sister out there, and how would that unknown child feel, knowing they weren't the first to be chosen, that they weren't the best blastocyst in the mix (I know initially they wouldn't have that level of comprehension about it)

A friend who was also going through IVF same time we were seemed to have similar results to yourself - 3 cycles and none of the embryos really progressing. They had both male and female factors . . . used donor sperm on one last chance IVF and she is now pg.

Not sure why you would choose DE over DS, depends on how you both feel about full/partial/no genetic link. I wholeheartedly would endorse 2-3 counselling sessions to just talk through the whole thing with someone experienced with donor conception too. I found that really useful, just getting it out there, fears, concerns, how and when to tell the child about their genetic origins, that sort of thing.

Your mum's reaction sounds pretty cold. Is she worried about what people might think? People do try and look for who the baby takes after, I just smile and say 'do you think so' or 'I have no idea who she looks like', which is true!!? Does your mum have to know the details of conception? I am all about transparency, and we told our families what we were doing with the thinking that if any of them were going to have the sort of reaction your mum has, they could deal with it and move on quicksmart before the baby is born. But honestly, the genetic side of it does fade once you're parenting. Its always there in the background, but definitely not forefront

For me the most important question is whether the child can trace their genetic parents. I would never bring a child into the world knowing there was no chance they could ever find out who their gentic parents were. I just think it is a fundamental right to know who you came from.

I have a child conceived using a donor embryo.He is now five. I love him to bits. He knows everything about his conception, although obviously does not fully understand,and he always will know everything. so too do some of my friends and all my family. Before I had my child I stressed endlessly about the repercussions for my child, people's reactions and so on. I still worry about these things but much less so. I cannot tell you what a hard decision it was but hard decisions are hard for a reason. I can sincerely say that it is the best, most joyful decision I have ever made. I tell my son this too.

Oh and to add to the above I did what I could to ensure that my child will in the future have access to genetic information.

Another reader who is a bit confused about why you don't just use donor sperm if your eggs are fine? And some clinics do embryo tests to pick up faults before they reach the implantation stage, they then implant the most genetically viable. Could you try one of them?

The first clinic said there might be a problem with my eggs or it could just be the sperm. They weren't sure.
The trouble is everything is so expensive. We've spent £20,000 already. I'm working two jobs. We just can't afford loads and loads of tests. A set of blood tests are £600. I had to have a smear before we could proceed with treatment abroad - another £650. We're talking thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds.

Hi OP, the karyotype genetic tests aren't too expensive in the great scheme of IVF - it's a simple blood test done on both partners, and we paid £180 each to be tested. There's also a newer technique called IMSI which some clinics use, which is basically ICSI with a super strong microscope which really magnifies the sperm, so they can select the best looking ones. Obviously quality is not guaranteed that just because a sperm might look good, but it will at least discount the ones that definitely aren't up to it. I know how these costs add up, and it's galling when you have to factor the total cost into into it with nothing to show as yet, but do look into these two things as part of your decision making process if you are going to consider a last attempt.

www.nhs.uk/news/2008/07July/Pages/NewIVFtechnique.aspx

Do you mind me asking OP, is the fact you don't want to adopt just because of the pregnancy/giving birth factor?

I think there are a lot of lovely, thoughtful people on this thread, you included op. Personally I think I would use a donated embryo if I knew that my child could find out about their biological parents later on in life. I say this because my dd was conceived using donor sperm (a friend acted as donor). It was always very important to my dd from an early age that she knew who her biological father was.

In your case you have a DH and therefore that question may not arise for your child as early on, I'm a gay parent.

I totally understand why you would feel comfortable with this. It's never been important to me that I look like my child, I just don't feel like that about it. DW is black and my dd is blonde and blue eyed but DW is the most devoted, amazing parent you could wish for and the two of them are very close.

My experience of this is that day to day life is lovely and completely normal, it's as your child grows up that they start to have their own questions and ideas about their identity and birth. Being open about it as early on as you can in an appropriate way is definitely the best way forward. I wish you both the very best of luck xx

Agree with pp that says perhaps try a different clinic and investigations. Tests might be expensive, but they are cheaper than IVF. It doesn't seem that you are all that satisfied with your current clinic.

A friend in a similar situation and advised to use donor embryos instead went to Spain for treatment using a different technique, which very fortunately was successful.

Perhaps if sperm is definitely a problem you could try donor sperm and your eggs?

Your mum's opinion doesn't matter here, if she is interfering would suggest not discussing these matters with her anymore!

We have friends currently doing this now.

Would it help to think of it like this - no, the baby won't be genetically related to either of you... just like you and your DH aren't genetically related to each other. Three separate people, brought together into a family. Equally linked through bonds of love, not genetics.

Re your mum, though - you need to stamp on this, really hard. To tell her that if you go down this route - and it's likely that you will - you will REQUIRE her to be on board, totally, and supportive, or you will have to distance yourselves from her. She doesn't get to undermine this and stay in your close family circle. That is simply not possible if this is to work. She is Grandma, and if she doesn't feel she can be, you won't be seeing as much of her.

Also op do not worry about your mum. My usually lovely dad said (before I had dd) "poor thing, she will be the weirdest child in Great Britain"!!!!! My mum and I laughed and told him he needed to get out more! Of course the minute she was born he fell in love with her and now denies ever saying or thinking that! The day to day reality of this is that you will be like any other loving family. Perhaps with some challenges ahead but who doesn't have those?!

10 days stimming doesnt sound a lot. I think ideally they like to go slower than that.
I had a lot of slow growers last cycle and they were i think collected from the smaller follicles (the 20mm ones grew at a more normal rate)
It could be the sperm but then DP has less than 1/2 million and icsi has worked 2/3 (4) times.

As above we didnt do too well only ever up to 4 fertilised with 1-2 to transfer at day 3.
Possibly a different protocol?

If your dh is ok with it i would try DS as that is the known issue.
What sort of grade are the embryos getting?
Ive only had success with 8/10 cell grade A/b my 6 cell and B grades didnt work

I'm sorry your journey to parenting isn't straightforward as would be preferred

I have no knowledge of this area but I'm sure you'd be a great mum however. I just came on to add about looks. I am friends with a lesbian couple who had a dd via donor....the DD looks so much like the mum who isn't her biological mum, she must be mirroring her expressions, it's amazing and just beautiful. DC are more than the genetic information they are born with.

I hope you find a decision you are happy with.

I think you would need to read testimonies from older teens and adults who have been conceived this way.

The fact that life is rosy with a toddler doesn't tell you anything I suppose.