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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I being shafted? Annual leave entitlement ..

35 replies

NexusSix · 01/02/2015 22:22

No traffic response in Chat so I'm trying for a less dull, more catchier title this time BlushGrin in AIBU. I really need some views/help on this please!

I work part time, 20 hours a week, 4 hours a day. I started 5th Jan this year. I have to return my employment contract tomorrow so I hope someone can just advise me on a couple of points, to reassure me they sound standard. The company has a a dreadful reputation, high staff turnover, etc so I don't want to be duped.I'm a lone parent so I'm trying to figure out which days to book off to save me childcare costs.

Bank holidays
Bank holidays will be paid provided you've worked the last normal day preceding the bank holiday and have worked the next normal working day immediately after.
Does this mean if I book a day's holiday either side of a bank holiday to make a longer weekend for myself, I will lose a day's pay, as they won't pay the bank holiday?

Annual Leave Entitlement
Entitled to 4x your weekly contracted hours (mine are 20) worked as annual leave per annum. You are not able to use this entitlement until you have completed your probation period (13 weeks. I'm currently 4 weeks in). During your first year of employment your annual leave entitlement will be in proportion to the number of completed months worked.

Small print elsewhere also states probationary periods can be extended at the manager's discretion until as and when they decide to confirm my offer of employment.
Does that mean they can keep extending the probationary period so that I don't receive holiday entitlement?

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 01/02/2015 22:32

the .gov holiday calculator says you are entitled to 112 hours annual leave so 4 x 20hrs doesn't sound right unless they are counting bank holidays over and above that

www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement

dementedpixie · 01/02/2015 22:34

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights - you are entitled to 5.6 weeks worth of holidays so 20 x 5.6 = 112 hours

Loletta · 01/02/2015 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JohnCusacksWife · 01/02/2015 22:39

The 112 hours includes bank/public holidays though.

atticusclaw · 01/02/2015 22:40

You are indeed entitled to 5.6 weeks annual leave. A week for you is 20 hours. If you get paid for bank holidays these days will be turned into hours and knocked off your entitlement.

I'm an elephant lawyer

atticusclaw · 01/02/2015 22:40

Nope I'm an employment lawyer with crappy predictive text.

Loletta · 01/02/2015 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JohnCusacksWife · 01/02/2015 22:41

Elephant lawyer! Grin

atticusclaw · 01/02/2015 22:42

Loletta is wrong I'm afraid you are not entitled to 4 weeks plus bank holidays. Statute says nothing about giving anyone bank holidays.

Scholes34 · 01/02/2015 22:42

Your annual leave entitlement is always in proportion to the length of time you work in a year, so you need to bear this in mind when you've started a job and also when you intend to leave.

Pipbin · 01/02/2015 22:42

Do elephant need many lawyers?

knackered69 · 01/02/2015 22:43

Atticusclaw GrinGrin

Pooka · 01/02/2015 22:43

But I love the idea of an elephant lawyer, like the king's advisor in babar. :(

cleanmyhouse · 01/02/2015 22:45

Elephant lawyer! I want to be one of them.

Pipbin · 01/02/2015 22:46

Protecting the copyright of Elmer's patchwork is important stuff.

(sorry for derailing your thread op)

Loletta · 01/02/2015 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime · 01/02/2015 22:46

Yes, statutory annual leave is 5.6 weeks (112 hours, for you) not 4 weeks. Public holidays can be included in the 5.6 weeks so if they don't pay you for a bank holiday because of their rather strange timing rules, you will still have to be given enough paid leave days to cover at least 112 hours.

They can tell you when to take the leave though a reasonable employer should be as flexible as possible to avoid pissing off staff. You have to be allowed to take your leave, regardless of probationary periods which really have little or no practical legal effect anyway. You can still be dismissed without warning for the first two years as long as you're given statutory notice and the company hasn't breached discrimination laws.

They don't seem the best employers so it's not surprising they have a high staff turnover.

fadingfast · 01/02/2015 22:50

The bit about not paying a bank holiday if you don't work before/after will be aimed at those who are conveniently 'sick' on those days, but certainly shouldn't prevent you from requesting and being paid for those days of holiday. It sounds badly drafted to me (also an elephant lawyer!).

AntiHop · 01/02/2015 22:53

I think they mean that you accrue annual leave but you can't take it until after your probationary period.

The thing about the months sounds like where I used to work. I was just to leave on the 20 something of march but my annual leave entitlement would have ended at end of Feb. So I would have lost the annual leave accrued in march. So I worked until the end of the month to get the full annual leave entitlement.

That thing about bank holidays sounds really mean.

atticusclaw · 01/02/2015 22:53

I would love to be an elephant lawyer. I'm sure it would be more exciting Grin

Employees are entitled to 5.6 weeks leave under statute but I'm afraid it isn't 4 weeks plus bank holidays, it's just 5.6 weeks. The employer always has the ability to tell the employee when to take holidays though and so many will say that you have to use eight of your days on bank holidays.

When we used to have four weeks only under statute it was quite common to see wording such as this or wording stating that you could only take the bank holiday if you usually worked on that day of the week (but there were issues here with discrimination).

It's just an out of date contract. I would query it and say that you understand the entitlement is now 5.6 weeks and can they confirm whether the company is closed on bank holidays.

atticusclaw · 01/02/2015 22:56

Antihop that is now out of date too. You don't have to work a whole month to accrue annual leave.

Original poster
NexusSix · 01/02/2015 23:13

Thankyou, everyone. I work in a sweatshop telemarketing call centre. New starters regularly walk out at lunchtime. I am learning that they have the worst employer reputation in the town, but I plan to stay here until something better arises as it's my first job after 7 years at home on my own with my children.

So, just to summarise

I need to confirm with my employer that if I want to book holiday either or both sides of a bank holiday, I just have to accept I won't be paid for the bank holiday.

The entitlement is now 5.6 weeks holiday not 4 and that the contract they have given me is out of date. (What if they just say, 'that's how it is, that's what we are offering you')?

I have to confirm whether they are closed Bank Holidays.

They shut down for 2 weeks over Christmas, so that must represent part of my annual leave entitlement?

OP posts:
Trickydecision · 01/02/2015 23:21

What if they just say 'That's how it is, that's what we are offering you'?

Join a union; they would advise you and deal with your employer.

atticusclaw · 01/02/2015 23:33

Just say you've checked and the entitlement is wrong so could they update the contract please. If they're an employer of any reasonable size then they will have an HR department who will be able to confirm that the law gives you 5.6 weeks.

You will need to hold back some of your leave for the Christmas shutdown unless you're told otherwise.

If they don't pay you for the bank holiday because you're already on leave then that would be very strange because it will mess up their payroll run. Employers don't pay you differently when you're on leave they just put through your normal salary but don't require you to attend work. I suspect they don't operate that clause in practice now anyway given the changes to annual leave and the way in which holidays accrue during periods of sickness. They just haven't updated their contracts.

angeltulips · 01/02/2015 23:44

so does OP get the full 5.6 wk entitlement even though she is working only slightly more than half-time? seems v generous?