Maintanance - he's got me doubting myself.

[horseygeorgie]

I have a 3.5 year old DD. Her 'Father' was an ex boyfriend I drunkenly decided to see again. We had a 1 night stand and I haven't seen him since. He's never met DD and firmly believes I should have had a termination. He has in her life given me 2 lump sums of money accounting to £200.
Over the last 6 months I have explained to him we are really struggling and would he please start a monthly contribution. I finally said to him tonight if I can't have a amicable arrangement I will go to CMA on Monday. He has agreed to a monthly payment but says I shouldn't ask him as it was my choice to have her and if I couldn't afford a child I shouldn't have had her. I thought I was infertile and had lost my marriage because of it and I suppose he feels hoodwinked.
AIBU?!? I wouldn't ask him but we really do need help.

[lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise]

I wouldn't go to CSA, if a previous decision to go alone.

I posted, and received enough abuse, on the other thread, so won't go on.

I do think that either partner is of the opinion that an embryo is a person, I do wonder how they morally balance that with casual sex. Either, in my opinion, sex is just sex, or it's an act that is high risk of creating a person. I can't reconcile, myself, how anyone (male or female) can have a ONS, with no contraception, and a belief that life begins at conception.

[Goldmandra]

horsey, you need to recognise this man as the person you have just described. He is trying to manipulate you in order that he can walk away without living up to his responsibilities. This has clearly work for him in the past.

YANBU to expect him to make a contribution. That's the whole reason the CMS exists.

Give him a figure, tell him when you expect to see the first payment and that you will contact the CMS if he messes you about. Negotiation is not an option.

Do not let him link this to him having contact with his daughter. The two are very different issues.

[Sollers]

Men don't either, ptolemys.

[SoMuchForSubtlety]

we have a benefits system that allows single mothers not to work for the first years of a child's life.

What, and then children become free
Also I'm with Bogey, I don't see why my taxes should support men who would like to have consequence free sex. There is nothing about that lifestyle choice that I think society should be condoning - it doesn't just affect consenting, self-supporting adults, it affects children. This type of man should be forced to accept responsibility.

Also I agree wholeheartedly with Vivienne (it's the law, he has to pay).

[Bogeyface]

lessgym

Presumably you missed the bit where the OP thought she couldnt actually conceive? So a ONS to her was not going to lead to pregnancy, this was never a concern for her. Except that it did. And as a woman who thought she may never have a child, I totally understand why she didnt terminate. This could literally be her only chance, I dont blame her for taking it.

He knew what he was doing when he didnt use a condom. I would have more sympathy if he has used one and it still happened, but he didnt. He wanted consequence (and condom) free sex and didnt get it. Tough. Its not like he didnt know, he has done it twice before!

[elfycat]

I'm gobsmacked that having fathered 2 children he still seems to be confused as to how it all happens and how he's ended up with 3 kids.

It's the sex mate, in case you're confused. Stop having sex and you'll stop having kids

YANBU to pursue maintenance from him. No matter that he didn't want to be a father again he is and that's all there is to it in this country.

[IgnoreMeEveryOtherReindeerDoes]

How the fuck does a thread about CSA end up about abortion Ffs! I find it odd also to bring it up especially as op dd is 3!

OP, the CSA has changed now its CMS to make an application you have to pay £20 before they will even chase up no guarantee they will collect especially if he works cash in hand. There is also other charges do have a look.

Paying and seeing a child are two seperate issues. DS (4) father has just starting seeing him, CSA payments weren't worth the price of phone calls after I put in for after 3years and the £5.81 a month I do get these last few months will stop when its switched over to CMS in August.

[horseygeorgie]

Thanks everyone.
It has wandered a bit, hasn't it!

[lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise]

The OP mentioned termination.

I didn't miss where she said she thought she was infertile. However, in my opinion, she decided to continue a pregnancy alone, which is her choice. I realise from here my decisions and beliefs are unusual, however, I am ernest in them, and I would not chase for maintenance in the circumstances OP outlines.

I think maintenance should be claimed in many circumstances: the bloke who leaves his pregnant wife, the abusive twat who is thrown out of the family home, the idiot who wants a baby until the BFP, and then changes his mind. Lots of circumstances. But I don't think the system is there for circumstances like the OP.

Mainly, I think I question the ethics of having a ONS if there is a risk, however small, you would bring a child into the world, given the widespread beliefs on here. I don't understand how people reconcile "ONS's are OK" and the popular opinions on maintenance. I find it hard to understand.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

YANBU. Those on this thread who think you are wrong are basically saying that a man's right to have consequence free unprotected sex is more important than a child's right to be supported. I find it disturbing that anyone could think that

You should go read the other thread about it,a few of them were on that.

Apparently because a woman has the ability to abort a man should have the right to walk away from a live child apparently its a feminist choice.


horsey

Yanbu a child has a legally protected right to obtain financial support from both parents

[HopefulHamster]

there's a real vibe here at the moment that women can just have a baby or have an abortion and both are 'easy' options if it's what she wants.

Abortion is not like washing your hands! It's a perfectly fine option but it's also perfectly fine not to want to do it, even if you have qualms about having a child. That's why men can't just say 'well she could've had an abortion so I won't pay'. What if that abortion then damaged the woman's body? Jeez.

Anyway OP of course he should pay. He should pay for all his children and start thinking carefully about his contraceptive choices too.

[basgetti]

I think maintenance should be claimed in many circumstances: the bloke who leaves his pregnant wife, the abusive twat who is thrown out of the family home, the idiot who wants a baby until the BFP, and then changes his mind. Lots of circumstances. But I don't think the system is there for circumstances like the OP.

So you have a system where some children are worthy of support and some aren't? All the men involved have willingly ejaculated so why the differentiation?

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

I think maintenance should be claimed in many circumstances: the bloke who leaves his pregnant wife, the abusive twat who is thrown out of the family home, the idiot who wants a baby until the BFP, and then changes his mind. Lots of circumstances. But I don't think the system is there for circumstances like the OP

The system is for any resident parent to obtain support from any none resident parent HTH

[Nerf]

As maintenance doesn't count for benefits the taxpayer comments,are irrelevant. Can claim even if getting £1000 a month in maintenance.

[horseygeorgie]

nerf I'd be lucky to get £10 never mind £1000! As stated before, I work. I get some benefit but have worked since DD was 11 months old (part time). I don't really want this ending up as a benefits thread.

[Bumbiscuits]

Horsey, go to the CMA and don't doubt yourself.

Your ex is a twazzock as is Ptolemy

Takes two to tango.

[cleanmyhouse]

I don't think you are being unreasonable. BUT... having fought for years with a guy who was basically shit about doing his bit, I decided to do it alone. I'm glad I did, the fighting and bad feeling just wound me up and I didn't want his input to end up with. The minute I stopped arguing with him was when life got easier. I ended up thinking I didn't want anything from him if it wasn't given willingly.

Thankfully he improved over the years though.

[Bogeyface]

As maintenance doesn't count for benefits the taxpayer comments,are irrelevant. Can claim even if getting £1000 a month in maintenance.

You are absolutely correct, however my issue is with the assertion that because women like the OP can claim benefits its ok for a man who said "I dont want it, get an abortion" to not pay child support.

I know that CS isnt counted as income, and I am glad it isnt (at the moment) as there was a short period where it was and thanks to a non paying NRP my cousin was left with precisely £11 per week for gas, electric, clothes and food for her and her DD because her ex should have paid £X, so her income support was dropped accordingly. I am happy that my tax goes to support single parents of both sexes who need it, but I am not happy that those self same benefits are used as an excuse for deadbeats to get out of paying CS.

There was a thread recently where the NRP, who had left his DP and kids, said that he wouldnt pay because she got tax credits so he didnt have to.

The reason that CS isnt counted as income is because there seems to be this belief that as long as the child is getting what it needs then the NRP can treat CS as a choice and not a requirement.

We need non payment of CS to be treated as non payment of council tax or income tax, treated as benefit fraud (which it is when you think about it...) or child neglect and that should include impounding cars, goods, charges made on property and prison sentences within say 6 months of non payment. When it becomes as legally and socially unacceptable to shirk your responsibilities to your children as it is to beat them, then and only then will we see a change in this attitude. And THEN we can used CS as income when calculating benefits, not as a nice bonus that some get but many dont.

Oh and FYI....a man who pays for his child isnt being a good father purely on that basis, he is doing what he is supposed to do!

[CupidStuntSurvivor]

I'm honestly a little sick of seeing these half-baked arguments that absolve men of all reproductive responsibility.

OP thought she was infertile and so contraception was not a consideration for her. Having thought this, abortion was not an option for her as the pregnancy gave her what may have been her only chance to be a mum.

Her DD's DF didn't know about the fertility issues. He was aware that sex can lead to pregnancy. He was also aware that it would be the OP's choice whether or not to have an abortion. Furthermore, he was aware that should OP fall pregnant and have a child, he could be pursued for maintenance payments until that child is 18. Knowing all this, he chose not to wear a condom.

And there are people who think he didn't have a choice?

And those of you talking about the morning after pill...why would a person who believes she's infertile seek emergency contraception?

OP, YANBU. Take it to the CMS.

[SoonToBeSix]

No yanbu of course not , can't understand why anybody would think otherwise. Like pp said the buck stops with the man when he chooses to put his penis inside you.

[CupidStuntSurvivor]

And sadly OP, threads discussing NRP's reluctance to pay maintenance in the case of unplanned pregnancies are routinely turning into abortion and benefits debates. People like Ptolemy behave as if men aren't aware that sex can lead to pregnancy, that women have rights to their own bodies and that children can't eat fresh air. They know these things before they have sex and in the case of your ex, he didn't even take contraceptive precautions. When posters like Ptolemy absolve men of all reproductive responsibility (because in their heads, men deciding not to ensure their living breathing children are fed is equivalent to a woman undergoing an abortion), they then need to find someone to foot the cost of the child. Hence the benefits system becomes a lovely scapegoat.

[Fabulassie]

This isn't about you. Your child has the right to financial support from both parents.

[YonicScrewdriver]

OP, YANBU.

The posters who have agreed with your ex hold this as their philosophical position. I totally disagree with them. But even they acknowledge that legally you have the right to apply for maintenance.

I would go through CMS though because this guy will pay one month and not the next otherwise.

[PopularNamesInclude]

Go to the CSA. Obviously he should pay for his child.

[however]

Go to see CSA and have them backdate what he owes you.

See how he likes dem apples.