To think the prices of train tickets are a disgrace

[justfoundout2014]

I live in the East Midlands and thought a trip to London would be nice in half-term, especially since DD has been full of her school topic on the Great Fire of London and Samuel Pepys etc

The cheapest tickets are £150, and those are at times that are far from ideal. I thought maybe I could get a better deal by booking further ahead, but on the sites I've looked at so far, prices are similar for Easter hols now and besides, I really want to go soon while dd's project is fresh in her mind. Sites mention peak and off-peak times, but there seems to be little variation in prices across the whole day.

Coach is a lot cheaper but takes 3 hours - a bit much for a day-trip. I could pay the money, though find it hard to justify that amount for one day, but obviously many would never be able to even consider it.

So privatisation has worked so well, hasn't it? Look at competition bringing those prices down...oh, wait a minute... Seems rail travel is the preserve of the wealthy now, aside from commuters who have no choice but to pay up.

These companies are being subsidised through our taxes - aibu to think they should be forced to do something about their ridiculous prices?

I'm fact, it makes me even more cross than that.

The worst thing about it is that the system is designed so that the companies can advertise routes as from some stupidly low price, knowing that next to no one can manage to get this fare. But the system tries to make you feel like its your fault for not knowing enough to navigate the Byzantine system/having to travel at short or even medium notice/needing some flexibility in your travel times and therefore that you somehow deserve to have to pay 10-15 times the advertised price (or sometimes even more).

There's also the fact that it can cost less to travel further, but you aren't allowed to buy that ticket and 'stop short'. That is just startlingly unfair. They should have peak and off peak prices, that cost a set amount for every mile/kilometre you travel. I'll even allow them to set a slightly higher price per unit of distance for fast trains as otherwise who you would take the slow train? They can do the same, but with higher prices for first class.

It really distresses me hen I see posts like this. I don't think we do a good job of explaining tickets at all as an industry.

train tickets are like plane tickets The closer you get to travel, the more expensive they are. Cheap tickets are released 12 weeks in advance once the engineering plan (and therefore timetable around any work) has been finalised. There are a set number at each price, so once they are sold, that is it. There may be more availability at unpopular times of day. The advance tickets mean you do have a seat and you must travel on that train - you wouldn't turn up to a later flight and expect your ticket to be valid, or expect Ryanair to take your easyjet ticket. Walk up tickets do not guarantee a seat unless you ask for a seat reservation (free).

get a railcard cannot emphasise this enough. However, if you do get one, keep it with you - your ticket is only valid with it.

Yes, a guard can use their discretion, but they are not meant to (unless their personal safety is at risk, at which point they retreat and call the police) and you don't know if they have a manager on the train keeping an eye etc.

OP if you want to PM me I will try to make your journey cheaper. ... I am sure it can be less than £150. As others have said, megabus sell tickets for Stagecoach train companies - southwest trains, East mids etc. as they have the same parent company, so they do some 'megabus' offers using sister company trains.

Also, I know it's expensive but I promise there isn't the same profit to be made in railways as there is in other transport businesses (or that's what my bosses are always telling me!). Running a railway is hugely expensive, hence why Network Rail is in a deficit. There are also huge inefficiencies but these are, sorry to say, inherent in a private rail system... too much of how a railway operates depends on collaboration, but collaboration doesn't boost profits (Now guess why I NC! ). Having worked here for several years I honestly believe nationalisation would deliver more, although I'd be out of a job. Prior to privatisation the railway was actually turning a good profit, which went back to the government, same with the East Coast franchise before it was just re privatised (ahead of the election) - now that's a proper scandal.

Going off for a shower but happy to answer any questions as long as I don't risk outing myself :)

Yes, we are driving cross country this month rather than taking the train as it will cost half the price of the rail fare, and that was including a family railcard and booking a few weeks in advance.

i agree, and much higher compared with similar distances in other countries. when i fly to gatwich i sometimes get the train to my final destination which is less than thirty miles, that is a 37£ return. that's about 50 euro. My own side, i live further from the airport and it costs about 21 euro for a return to the airport. a lot of things are cheaper in the uk but train prices seem very very expensive to me.

But we just should not have a system that punishes people for not being incredibly knowledgeable about how to game it.

I'm sure it won't be that much op

Look at split ticketing too. Perfectly legal. So if say it's £20 from Derby as someone mentioned with split ticketing you would buy that and a return from your station- say nottingham to Derby at the usual cheap local cost.

The guy at my local station is ace at this - I think the prides himself in getting you the best deal. He says the usual rule of thumb is that the fares ( esp advance) are cheapest for an easy " day out distance" .

Haven't RTFT but if you're not fussy about dates the Trainline Fare Finder is a godsend! www.thetrainline.com/farefinder/

iworkontherailway

So explain split ticketing

If I buy a return Nottingham to Birmingham it will cost me £36.70 if I want to leave before 10am, returning the same day

If I instead buy a return to Long Eaton, and then a return Long Eaton to Derby and get on the same trains it will cost £22.90 (4.50 + 18.40)

YANBU

I was looking last night for return tickets from Kings Lynn to York to save having to find somewhere to park the car all day - £250!

I'm now looking into a B&B and staying overnight. Inculding petrol it will still be miles cheaper

yanb op! They are a disgrace, it never fails to amaze me that it is cheaper to drive somewhere than to get the train I want to take dd to London this year, prob Easter time and it will be at least £100 return, I'm in the South West

The system is ridiculous. By having to book months in advance and only on specific trains, you are giving up all flexibility and cannot change your plans without losing all your money.

Yes you can get some deals, but you have to work pretty hard and be quite lucky to actually find them. And the cheap tickets at popular times are like hens teeth and sell out within seconds/minutes/hours of being released.

No wonder people use their cars instead. Usually cheaper if more than one person travelling and you can come and go as you please.

How about driving to Brent Cross shopping centre (north London, near the end of the M1) and getting the tube in?

I've also heard of someone parking near the dome and tube/docklands in from there.

tobe

It is another consequence of the private system (I know I sound like a stuck record - I guess on train wifi is probably a good benefit from the private system?). I don't understand it fully, but each main train company in the area is allowed to set the fares (or have input to it, I'm not sure) between key pairs of destinations, e.g. A to B and C to D. So if you are travelling across boundaries - and your example uses cross country, which crosses a lot - then it is often cheaper to buy tickets in stages as you cross the boundaries rather than straight through from A to C as you are doing a little bit of A to B and a little of C to D. It is insanity. Under British Rail I think it was charged per mile, but I am happy to be corrected.

Of course if it was still charged per mile there would not be the cheap advance tickets between say Edinburgh and London.

ToBee I think you must live somewhere near me. When I was in my teens (a long time ago) I used to take random days off work and go to London if there was an exhibition or something similar that I wanted to see. I never stayed late, but was quite happy to leave London up to eight o' clock. I used to just turn up at the station and get what was called a 'cheap day return'. I can't remember the exact amounts but it was affordable on a teenager's wages. Now I'm much better off and I can't afford and the earliest 'off peak' train leaves Derby at 10 am.

Split ticketing is something to do with travelling outside peak times. The second ticket will be an off peak time, but the first ticket will be a peak ticket.

By splitting, instead of paying for a peak ticket for the whole journey, you only have a peak ticket for a portion of the journey. I CBA with it myself and as such have more or less put travelling by train for a sensible price in the 'too difficult to bother with box' so don't do it. Which is a shame, because I do enjoy the odd day out in London, Edinburgh etc, but CBA with hours of research and messing about with websites etc to find a good price.

OnIlkley but if people continue to pay this then surely some people are 'happy' to pay? It is the same with flights... I would always book Ryanair because I have weighted the cost of price very flexibility and chosen price.

yeah split ticketing halves the price from where I live to Manchester.

I really don't think that you can compare rail fares to plane fares. Most people don't regularly. suddenly decide to take a plane at short notice. Wanting to travel in the UK is rather different. So people use cars.

I also despise having a set train time to come back. You are either enjoying yourself/ want to stay longer or you end up hanging around for 2 hours when you want to go home. And of course if you get stuck on the tube or something and miss the train you are stuffed.

No, in this case it's nothing to do with off peak times. It's the fact that once you get into Derbyshire you have the option of a day return, which doesn't exist as an option for Nottingham to Birmingham.

I can also split ticket my whole Reading to Nottingham (into 4!) journey to get a fully flexible journey at the same price as an advance ticket, e.g. for £50 I can have a ticket that lets me get on any train, can save nearly an hour if I manage to sprint at Birmingham and pick up the train that leaves 5 minutes after mine arrives which isn't an option with the advance ticket where I must wait my allotted 50 minutes.

I registered for a text/e-mail notification of when advanced (cheap) tickets went on sale for a certain date that I wanted for a day return from Crewe to London. Got 3 x adult return tickets for £114 and none of us have railcards.

Have done it in the past with a family railcard for c£70 return for 2 adults and 2 children.

I agree that the system is overly complicated and unfair on people who are only occasional users and don't understand the system as they lose out financially.

Train prices are ridiculous. If I'm travelling some distance I find its almost always the same price just to hire a car, sometimes cheaper. Saves the faffing around the mindfield of hunting down the advance/split ticket/off-peak nonsense.

I'd like to be able to use the train to get to London, it would take us less than an hour to get into central London. But it's just not worth it for a family. Even with congestion charge and expensive central parking, it is significantly cheaper to drive.

Some tickets are really good value - my annual GM train card lets me travel all over Greater Manchester area at any time, as often as I want. All for 906 per year.

The last minute peak return Manchester to London on a Monday morning for 332 was not so good value.

sovery It was on thetrainline.com website. I keyed in a journey that was more than 12 weeks in advance and then clicked on check train times. It came up in a 'flash' at the top of the page saying that advance tickets usually come up for sale around 12 weeks before the journey with the option to click to register for e-mail notification. You then get an e-mail as soon as advance tickets for your journey go on sale. (sorry couldn't remember if it was text or e-mail - juts remember picking message up from my phone). DH was very sceptical about the alert arriving at the right time, but it did.

Just looked at the train line for a journey from Cardiff to Darlington. A whopping £140 return and thats for 14 weeks in advance.

Would love to know how to get these cheap deals.

Also what railcard does a single under 60 qualify for who maybe will only use a train once or twice a year.

Unescorted

£906 pounds a year seems a lot of money for local travel.

It's a lot to pull out at once.

Although if you trAvelled every day / used it to go somewhere I suppose £2-50 a day isn't too bad.