To think to much fuss is made about 'screen time' and that most people must be underestimating their use of it

[lecce]

Surely most dc are going to have jobs that are largely screen-based and being familiar with technology from a young age is not going to stand in their way and can only be beneficial.

And it must depend on what they are doing on said screens - Wii is interactive, can be played with others and involves movement (I am totally out of breath after the Let it go dance sequence). How bad can it be? Ds2 would be on it all day if we let him, but he has learnt several of the dance routines and can perform them without the music - it's a skill, no? I am a bit of a technophobe myself so learning with my dc really and have little knowledge of the other stuff that's out there, but I'm sure it all develops skills of some sort or another.

Is my ds1 spending hours hitting a ball against a wall really so much more worthy than the other boy doing his dance routines just because the latter involves a screen? I know as parents we need to encourage our dc to have a range of interests - mine do 2-3 activities each and we do outings quite often, as well as boardgames, reading, craft for ds2, musical instrument learning for ds1 etc. Is it really so bad if most of their 'free non-parental involvement time' is spent on screens?

I seem to remember a fair few hand-wringing reports over the years about children watching 3 hours of tv a day, but if they are up for 12 hours and doing other stuff the rest of the time, is that really so much?

What do others, honestly, do?

Personally I think the Internet and screens are a fantastic resource. My teen ds spent a pleasant hour last night and also today watching you tube video presentations for his science GCSE revision - an amazing resource!

I'm also a teacher. I'd be interested to look at any links to research on screens and educational development.

Does a kindle count as screen time?

I think screen time is a far too general term
Playing grand theft auto, watching peppa pig, writing a story in Word, playing minecraft, learning to code using scratch, watching cats on YouTube - these are all screen time but I think it could probably be argued that they are not equally "bad" or inappropriate for a school aged child.

Only on Mumsnet is there so much angst over whether content is delivered through a screen compared to what that content actually is.

I genuinely worry about this. When we're home, I'll have the TV on in the background. DD is only 10mo. She doesn't really take much notice of it unless I put children's TV on, which she might get while I'm too busy cleaning up after her to entertain her (single mum) and if we're in, for the bedtime hour as it's built into her night time routine. Does having TV on that she barely pays attention to count as screen time??

And, if it's such a good thing for a child to see you reading, is it automatically not as good if you're reading on phones/laptops/kindles? I'm studying at the moment so she doesn't often see me reading actual books...books don't have internet access after all!

I really think the key is restricting their screen time when very young.

So so important that parents still read books to kids every night from baby to school age.

My dds are teens so we didn't have so many screens back in the day (no tablets but of course games consoles and telly), we read stories to them every night.

They didn't have game consoles til they were 10+.

Now we don't really restrict it if I'm honest because the ground work was done - they have good concentration, good literacy and academic skills.

Hmmm yanbu and I'm a bit at some of the extremist scaremongering on this thread.Like with all things it is all down to parenting.

I'm in the interesting position of having 3 very able and avid readers alongside living in a techie household.My dp is a coder and most certainly isn't keeping his kids away from screens but quite the reverse.I have twin 11 year old boys who are voracious readers,doing level 6 reading in Sats.This age group and gender are the very group who tend not to read and who love their screens.One of our boys is in the interesting position of being both G&T in literacy and IT(he has been coding for a while and has a scary aptitude for the subject). He has access to an IPod touch,Mac book pro,Ipad,Raspberry Pi and an Xbox.

On the other end of the spectrum I work with and see the fall out that screens has on other children.

So what are we doing to facilitate and get the most out of both that others may not?

It's parenting.Like with everything we have strict rules and stick to them.Absolutely no screens in bedrooms or before school and only an hour after school.Projects they may be working on like a Pi project they may get extra set the weekend if homework permits.Early bedtimes( they read).They then have hours of free time in which to fill so they read,go out to play etc. I buy a lot of books and we go to the library a lot.We eat at the table so we talk as a family a lot and we encourage creativity in IT not just passive over age games.

Parents simply aren't strict enough,kids are now getting flat screen smart TVs on their bedroom walls and phones at 8. Instead of having the rows strict boundaries cause they turn a blind eye,they'd rather buy the latest XBox game than the equivalent in books.Sticking kids in front of screens when you're knackered is easy.Some go the other way and scared of having to man up and parent ban the lot.Both sets of kids are missing out and are going to be left behind in the digital age.Screens won't damage your kids but your parenting may.

And yes TV most definitely does count as screentime. My dc have to make choices.We watch much better TV as a result.If they have TV as their screentime they want it to be good so watch a lot of stuff like nature progs,Miranda,Blue Peter,News Round on Iplayer instead of endless drivel just because it's on.They need plenty of totally free screentime imvho.

I even include YouTube Loom Band tutorials on the TV or Ipod as screen time.< mean mummy>

I'm strict enough thanks....

My girls choose their own screentime, sweets, fizzy etc because I have taught them that overindulgence in these things, as with many things in life, can have negative consequences.

The very fact that some children are addicted to spending time on screens and have to be forced to do something else is the root of the problem. If they are so addicted they do not CHOOSE to do something else what have you allowed to happen to make them so?

I look around here and DD12 is doing homework - finishing off a diagram, DD14 is playing hide and seek with the dog - I'm the only one on a screen. (they have chosen to do this I haven't told them to) DD14 will check her phone every so often, DD12 will watch some youtube videos later (she likes them and likes to "fit in" with friends at school who are all into Dan and Phil). We will watch the last episode of Ascension later after tea.

DD14 now has the dog curled on her lap and is reading Divergent - a book series she got into because of watching the film.

My son is often on his computer for hours most days and he uses a laptop at school too. I have no problem with either of these things. He is dyslexic and having tried very hard with his handwriting we've all agreed that it's not going to get any better so he types most things now. He is doing very well at school so I've no worries there, and at home he is a big strategy player, does most of his socialising on line and has become an admin/moderator of a few sites.

Absolutely no issue with his literacy or verbal skills, and the games he plays are all about thinking so we have lots of conversations about ethics and politics. This weekend he is taking part on a model UN and so doing lots of real life negotiation which he is well versed in. ds currently wants to be either a programmer or a politician, both seem fine to me. We do have some family rules, no TVs/consoles in bedrooms, no games I don't like (killing real people sadistically), set bedtimes and meals together but the techie stuff I'm not too bothered about. I think it's one of those things people get far too hung up on.

We're all human.

My dc wouldn't want to spend hours on screens but they'd easily spend too much accidentally if I let them.It's easier to just go on an Ipad or phone and before you know it you've just spent an hour.The fact is day after day those lost hours add up and do have an impact.

The fact is parents aren't giving boundaries and kids aren't self regulating.Kids need to be taught the skills of self regulating by experiencing their screen time being regulated.If they have never been shown how to do it you'd have to be very stoical kids to pull it off.The marshmallow test has shown in studies that young kids don't have that self discipline.

The hour a day my dc has gives them autonomy.They choose when and how they have it.They don't hoover it up the minute they wake up but plan carefully.Both are reading as I speak so as to save it for later.

Great if your kids are unusually able to restrict themselves beautifully to a small amount a day but most won't be able to and if parents are honest spend far too much time on shite games wasting hours in a day.

LePetitMarsellais Has the marshmallow test shown that? I thought it showed more that children of unreliable parents don't believe people so take the immediate reward. It's again another proxy for disinterested parents, "yes little johnny, I'll take you to the park later..." If they don't go to the park the right lesson is not to trust any offer of later. The marshmallow test doesn't just test self discipline.

Why do you believe most kids choose among a whole range of toys? I've never seen an NT completely focussed on just one of anything, they like choice and variety.

It has recently been updated by the test inventor who now says self discipline isn't fixed and can be taught.

Either way a little honesty is needed and the fact remains an awful lot of the time if an Ipad is in the room and a pile of books the vast maj will pick the Ipad in free choice particularly those who struggle to read in the first place.

It's not about making a big deal but simply that spending hours on screens a day doing passive activities isn't an option.

Would also like to add that an awful lot of parents sadly think hours on Halo equals a worthy activity and a child able in IT.It simply isn't the case.

Great post LePetitM. Children have to be taught how to self regulate and young children simply cannot be expected to be able to do this.

I work with under 5s and their parents and a worrying number of parents have no idea what to do with their children other than shoving a screen or food or drink at them. We ask what their child enjoys doing and virtually every parent starts with some type of screen, and sometimes can't think of anything else their child spends time on. Yes screens do have a role in learning but not with tiny children who are developing their attention, interaction, play and language skills from scratch. The American Association of Paediatricians have recommended no screen time whatsoever for under 2s and up to an hour a day for under 4s.

but if you also put some lego, meccano, dolls, ball, craft stuff, big empty boxes - and leave it all there you will find that kids will choose to do all sorts of stuff rather than read....

Somewhere sadly in my experience with the maj this simply isn't the case.

Also how many kids actually have all this other stuff at home?My dc's mates were already saying by 8 that they weren't interested in toys anymore and were having screens instead as presents.

Parents don't gave bottomless pits of money,having spent ££££ on screens there often isn't oodles of cash for all the other stuff.

we have different experiences then...

my girls - and their friends - would go for the boxes and build their den (even at 12 and 14) , decorate it, make a bed for the dolls out of lego and a hoist or grabber or something out of meccano which would be used to do horrible things to the dolls, THEN settle down in the corner of it with the ipad for an hour showing off their den to their mates... the ball would be used as a destructive force at the end of the day (the books might be used as a pillar or to sit on...)

We never limited TV, that was the only screen we had when ours were little. But we still read, drew, built lego, played outside and interacted with them. When the GameBoys etc started to be bought at Christamses etc, we never had a rule of how long they could be on it. They self limited and still played with other things. Had they not, we would have done something about it.

I do think a lot of parents now are too reliant on screens. You go to the supermarket, there are toddlers watching videos on phones. You go on a car journey they are watching DVDs. It's totally not necessary.

and we have the stuff because we bought it when they were younger, and we already have a family ipad, laptop and android tablet -

have not gone down the route of buying individual ones, they are not that important to us.

When I was a kid, parents and others said Ispent too much time trying to code, playing games (having to type in listings first or wait for a tape to load). When I wasn't using the computer, they complained I always "had my nose in a book". Once reading is mastered, it's as or more passive than a screen.

I'm sure the issue is with parents who either interact with their kids (using screens or otherwise), and those that don't, whether they are shoving a screen at the kids to keep them quiet or just shoving them in another room.

Also kids are different - my ds will watch TV but soon start playing an imaginative active game inspired by it, even if it's still on in the background, so I don't really worry about his screen time as he loves books and toys too. Whereas dn will be transfixed by a screen and once seen, never want to do anything else, so needs strict limits on screens just so he can understand the rules.

Toys and books bought when younger aren't going to have much pull for a streetwise 10 year old.My DS love their technic lego and motors,chemistry sets,latest books etc.They all cost a small fortune.

Great that you have both but salaries and incomes vary and I know kids with zero books in the house but a shed load of computer games.

Frankly I think we're getting towards needing gov health warnings eg adverts asking if you've read to your child,showing the wonder of books, sort of a 3 a day challenge.I also think parents need screen guidelines and advice advertised at peak times.

I'm aware some will think that hysterical.