please help me help my teenage son with his job

[fedupandfeelingold]

He is commis in a french/English restaurant
Busy
Working 50 - 70 hours
Needs to negotiate less hours and or more money without getting sacked or seeming to not want to progress
He is knackered
He wants a chef career
Head chef likes him
Due to his age he is very cheap
(not paid by hours worked but per week)
He has only been here 3 weeks

As someone who has worked my entire career in the hospitality industry and currently works in the recruitment side I will give you my honest professional advice - there is nothing that can be done!

Chefs on average work 60-70 hours a week with a commis chef earning the minimum wage for their age category based on a contract of 48 hours. Your son will probably never every work a 48 hour week in any restaurant. If he complains they will say tough, say it isn't working and terminate his contract without reason. He will not have a leg to stand on. This will be the same for his entire working career with very very few company's being any different. If he is struggling now he really needs to decide whether he can stick through it or pick another career.

Sorry if this sounds harsh and I know it seems unfair but that is just how it is. And yes is against the law but I am yet to hear of a successful case that was taken to tribunal and many have tried.

That sounds very harsh Jesy. My son used to work part time as a kitchen porter in a hotel restaurant, about 12-15 hours a week They paid him minimum wage, increased it when he hit 18. They had a decent rota so he had one night off every weekend. And mostly they fed him as well, (chef thought he was a bit skinny).

DS was well taken with the whole kitchen thing and even toyed with the idea of jacking in his A levels.

Like I said Tinky the OPs son will 'probably never work a 48 hour week'.

If hes is already in that situation then it is very unlikely it will change as Chef will have to change everyone's working hours or risk revolt therefore having to hire another chef which will I suspect not be in his budget. It usually isn't the Head Chefs choice to work their chefs 60-70 hours a week its the money grabbing powers at be.

I might also add, with no disrespect meant, that the conditions of a part time KP are very different to those of a full time Commis Chef. I would be very interested to know if each Chef got a night off at the week end and if so how that was logistically possible.

I offered up my opinion as someone who has worked at both Senior Management level in Restaurants and Hotels and now in Hospitality Recruitment you can chose to dismiss it if you want and provide anecdotal evidence from one time you knew of slightly different conditions however, as long as the general public still have a warped view of the true cost of putting restaurant food on their plates it isn't going to change.

I'm not disputing your knowledge of the business at all Jesy, I'm just surprised that my son's experience seems to be so much better than the norm. Presumably the commis chefs have to suck it up a bit more in return for the training?

He could get a Level 3 apprenticeship... we have a lot of them. He should be in some sort education, his employer is breaking lots of laws.

Tinky - your son was lucky.

Nomama - it really won't make much difference to his working conditions and he will have to find a place will a qualified Chef in place which in a lot of areas is difficult to come by. Yes the employer is breaking the law but as I pointed out in my last post there are very few cases where by the employers are pulled up on it.

Too be honest getting a level 3 for a year will not help the OP DS career at all. I don't think have met one chef who felt the skills learnt in college after the 1st years basic prepared them for working in a commercial kitchen at all and I've never had a chef turned down for a job because they haven't been to college. However, a chef with 3 years on trade experience will trump a chef with 3 years college only experience any day.

If I was the OP I would recommend that her son have a big think about what he wants to do with his life.If he wants to be the next big thing then he better get his head around 20 hour days and no life. He could alternatively stay in situ and search for a job that will have less hours but he may be searching for a very long time and I doubt it will be somewhere with any culinary accolades.

yes he needs to look for a level 3 apprenticeship or consider level 3 at college - he should be engaging in learning

but I am very concerned about his employment - he is working too many hours for not enough money - unless he signed to say he opted out of the working time directive - please get advice

ACAS would be a good starting point - he is 17 and they are taking the piss

in fact they are breaking the law

16 and 17 year olds
16 and 17 year olds can’t normally work more than 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week.

The hours can’t be averaged out for 16 and 17 year olds. There is also no opt-out which means that they can’t work longer hours even if they want to.

www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maximum-working-hours-and-opting-out

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1373

Sounds like they are taking the piss but has he opted out of the WTD? I have done this in every single job (not a chef) including those I had in my teens. This may mean he cannot do anything.

under 18 can't opt out - it's illegal

I agree with Jessy unless he goes into factory style canteen catering 40 hrs is like a half weeks work, smoking will be his only breaks and wages will b set at x amount no matter how many hours worked and hrs are never paid back,
If he loves what he does the rest will not matter, I say this as a chef who worked in the industry for 23 yrs, I now work an hourly rate 40 hrs a werk with breaks in a different industry and tbh I am shocked at the crap I put up with a the norm

Thank you Canyou we all know it's not right but it is what it is.

Ghosty please see my above thread regarding Level 3s in the catering industry they are not worth the paper they are written on. The only people who think they are worth anything are the colleges and HR departments of large hotel chains.

All of you quoting WTRs etc are completely missing the point. Every single person working in the hospitality industry knows that laws are being broken, lots of people question it, when they do their contracts are swiftly terminated without cause. If you try to take an employer to court over it it is very difficult as you have to prove that you were there for those hours and if you work for an employer for less than 2 years you have few to no rights.

I personally agree that the fact that OPs DS being 17 is a problem and when I was a manager I would have had serious issues with him working those hours and followed the WTR for under 18s to the letter and put under 18s on hourly rate to prevent such exploitation. However the fact he is already working those hours and is on a salary. means that where he is working doesn't care about the hours he works. He also is not going to struggle any less with 70 hour weeks at 18yrs old than he is at 17.

This will be my last post as I just seem to be saying the same thing over and over again.

If there are so few openings in your area for your DS to get work, and if he really wants to be a chef, I'd tell him to to put up with it until he's 18 ( for the experience and reference ) and then apply for positions elsewhere with accommodation. Which will be hotels, with even shittier hours, but no commuting involed and the possibility of a social life.....fondly remembers mad nights in the staff accommadation/social club at Gleneagles.

If he's not used to working 50+ hours, of course he's tired. Don't think there's anything he can do about the illegality without getting sacked.

OH is a chef and generally, its very long hours for not much pay. He would often work 50hr weeks (plus unpaid overtime closing kitchen down/opening up). What he did was write down each day the hours he worked e.g start 11 finish 10 and then at the end of the week show the boss all the 'extra' hours worked so he could at least get paid for them.

I'd say generally it is very long hours, only thing he can do is write down hours worked as proof and ask for pay for them and/or say that he wants to work a set number e.g 40. Chef roles tend to have a v.high turnover and they may look for someone who will work 70hrs

Why is anyone doing this job if it's so shit?! If an entire industry is acting illegally then we need to act.
Your son should join a union op and discuss the issues there.
Or retrain in an industry where he won't be treated like shit.

Sorry, I know I said my about post would be my last but I had to respond to itsbetters comments. Erm...nothing will be done about the shitty illegal hours because the general public do not think they should have to pay more for dining out in restaurants - which is what enforcing WTR will do as it will raise the cost of keeping the restaurants open. I have lost count of the number of times that customers would complain about the price of food whilst praising every other aspect of their experience, like magic food fairies delivered it too their table with no effort whatsoever .

Chefs work the hours they do because they love it. My other half is constantly knackered and I never see him, but he is bloody talented at what he does and enjoys the comradary of the kitchen. I am considering going back into an operational role because I miss it.

There are hospitality unions but they aren't particularly active as Cheffing is really something that you because you are passionate and talented if you are not you find another career.

Unfortunately I have to agree with canyou and jessy that this is how it is to be a chef in a small restaurant. My brother has been a very good, highly thought of chef for about 15 years and is beyond totally knackered in his early 30s. He's walked in and out of dozens of jobs in that time, all over the country, mostly in 5 star hotels and Michelin starred restaurants or gastro pubs.

Almost impossible to lead a 'settled' life as moving around all the time. Has been unemployed and back at parents for past year or so due to back and knee problems preventing him working - chefs are on their feet for 16-18 hours a day.

Long hours, ridiculously low pay (definitely below NMW when counting actual hours worked, terrible working conditions). Alcoholism is rife too. I'd say it is almost impossible to find a decent employer wrt hours, pay, working conditions etc.

chains are not much better -DPs cousin worked in the kitchen for a chain and she didn't know barely from one day to the next what her hours would be - she could work tens of days in a row, double shifts sometimes if someone else was off or they were short staffed etc. didn't get statutory holiday entitlement either.

I suppose they get away with it because a lot of the workers are young and either don't know their rights or don't have the confidence to stand up for them. After all, if someone loses their job, there are others queuing up to take it.

Totally incompatible with family life and committed relationships too - chefs are effectively married to the job, not their spouse.

It's not right but unless there's some widescale enforcement, I can't see anything changing and your DS needs to consider whether this is what he really wants or choose something different.

I know it is how it used to be... and is these days ... for someone training to be a chef. However, the law has now changed and, as he is under 18, he should be in education. A L3 apprenticeship will tide him over for the year he needs...

Like everyone else, his employer needs to realise that this is the way of it these days - despite a lack of enforcement of the new laws.

Well
Just come back to the thread (op)
Not shown son posts from last night and today (obvs he's working!)
He's hoping to get this evening tomorrow off.
Anyway previously showed him the thread
He said that the hours and pay fine but there's a 'loose cannon' chef in the kitchen he doesn't like and the head chef can be 'iffy'
He saw someone getting their normal pay and a brown envelope
(so obviously not above board)
Was praised and told keep it up and I see you as a cdp in a year
He said he will see how he feels in 2 months but other chefs there have told him it's easier in other places
(it is a highly regarded place in town centre where we live - lot of restaurants here so potentially lots of opportunities)

Meant this evening OR tomorrow off

He does love the chef idea and wants to be GOOD not just have a job