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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think we should play along with this for a bit?

48 replies

PinkOrchid123 · 30/01/2015 13:50

Child maintenance and teenage behaviour related.

Background:

My DH and his XW have two sons together. DSS1 is almost 19, DSS2 15. They have always been with XW on weeknights, at ours on weekends, though DSS1's visits are a lot less regular now as he's 18. He sees his dad pretty regularly, they call each other, Facebook, etc. though. No problem for either of them, just part of growing up IYSWIM.

DH and XW have a family-based arrangement for child maintenance in place where DH pays £350 per month, buys all clothing, pays for regular hobbies (sports, music lessons etc) and equipment related to these, and any school-related activities (tutoring, trips etc). The agreement is that DH will pay until DSS is 20 if he is in full-time education not higher than A-Level or equivalent (as per law). After that, he will stop paying XW, but support DSS directly in some way. I'm saying this because this post isn't about shirking payments, DH would not leave his son in the lurch.

The situation:

Since September, DSS1 has been at a local college at a level below A-Level, so DH is continuing to pay maintenance for him to XW. We've now found out that DSS1 has stopped attending this college / been asked to leave (not 100% sure what happened exactly - but he is definitely no longer attending).

DSS1 has not told his father. In fact, when DSS1 speaks to his dad, he's telling all these stories of stuff he's doing at college. He's admitting to not enjoying the course he is on, but says he still attends every day etc. It's highly likely that he is telling these stories so that his mum will continue getting maintenance payments. She's petrified of losing those. DSS1 is not very mature for his age and he would do this if he felt that he's protecting his mum from losing income.

If we call DSS1 on this, then in all likelihood he will become very distressed because he was trying to protect his mum, he won't want to admit to his dad that he 'failed' at college, and XW would kick off big, big, big time if she felt her payments were at risk, etc.

So AIBU to think that rather than calling his bluff and starting World War III, we should sit this out for a bit? WWYD?

OP posts:

Original poster

PinkOrchid123 · 30/01/2015 17:40

Thanks olgaga. There's no risk of him being made homeless and very, very little risk of him wanting to move in with us, although he would be welcome though I would secretly cry myself to sleep for a few days. Realistically, it would be too much hard work for him to be here. He'd be kicked out of bed at 7 at the latest and there'd be no sitting on the sofa playing on the xbox in PJs all day... and he knows it!

We definitely wouldn't let it ride till he's 20, by the way... I was more thinking giving it another two, three weeks to see if he'll come out with it eventually. But all you wonderful posters are right and we need to bite the bullet. I'll speak to DH tonight. I think he just needs to tell DSS1, next time college is mentioned, that he is fully aware that he isn't attending any longer, so no need for the stories. And that leaving college is ok and that we still love him, but DSS1 needs to have a Plan B and actively work on that right now, rather than sit around at home. And then turn the conversation to that Plan B rather than dwell on how disappointing it is to be lied to, etc etc.

I think if we avoid the guilt tripping although DSS1 really needs to be told that lying to us is utterly crap and I'm itching to do just that and avoid the immediate withdrawal of funds from XW even though that's also tempting, then maybe, just maybe we can avoid the World War?

What do you think? Too soft?

OP posts:

olgaga · 30/01/2015 18:09

I think that's a good approach. Breaking this cycle of lies will probably be a great relief to him. He shouldn't feel that he is responsible for protecting his DM's income - probably does but there's no need to make that an issue.

Kids (and yes at 19 tbh many are still kids) do get manipulated or get themselves into a terrible "what if" nightmare. The kind of love and support you and your DH are prepared to offer will be remembered by him forever. Including in relation to his own DC one day. That's the lasting effect of support like this.

I suggest your DH starts by saying "Look we're all adults here ..."

Works a treat IME .

IAmNotAPrincessIAmAKahleesi · 30/01/2015 18:18

I think your plan is a really good one, with the exception of continuing to pay the child support

It sounds like the ex is going to kick off whenever the money stops so you won't be gaining anything by delaying it

I think you also need to separate the two issues, tell dss1 that you love and support him and will help him figure out what to do next but don't engage with him about the money- tell him it is between his mum and dad and that there are laws in place for exactly this situation

olgaga · 30/01/2015 18:46

I would definitely have the discussion with DSS1 before you do anything about the maintenance.

Bear in mind that with the right support he may be persuaded to go back into FTE (which should be the priority) or if not the maintenance will end.

Out of courtesy I would give the ex 2 or 3 months notice of any change.

Littlef00t · 30/01/2015 19:23

I think you could break the news you know, but say don't worry maintenance won't change for now. Then agree a plan of action so that in a couple of months if he's done xyz he'll get £x per month directly. If he doesn't make a proactive effort after the agreed term, it gets stopped?

Original poster

PinkOrchid123 · 30/01/2015 19:36

little That sounds good. I think we'll definitely park the maintenance issue for a couple of months while encouraging DSS1 to sort out the mess he's got himself in. We can always take a harder stance in two months' time, but give him a chance to act responsibly first.

We're seeing him on Sunday - DH is going to raise it then. I think I'll try to stay out of the way for that conversation...

OP posts:

lljkk · 30/01/2015 19:39

good luck!

missymayhemsmum · 30/01/2015 19:41

That sounds like a good idea. I'd put the ball in DSS1's court- your DH should tell him man to man that he knows he isn't in college, agrees the course wasn't for him, and ask him what his plan is and what support he would like - practically and financially- to enable it to happen. If he doesn't have a plan ask what support he needs to make one. Make it clear that paying DH paying maintenance so DSS1 can sit on the sofa at his mum's is not going to happen past (say) his 19th birthday, and that he'll need to be in work, at college or claiming JSA by then.

tinkerbellvspredator · 30/01/2015 19:55

Perhaps an additional tactic depending on circs, if you stop maintenance, would be to put the money into a savings account in your names but tell DSS1 that you will keep it and he can have it when older towards a deposit or whatever.

Original poster

PinkOrchid123 · 30/01/2015 20:40

Tinkerbell Good idea! I'll suggest it.

God, I hate this situation. Part of me is so mad at DSS1 for lying, the other part is sad for him as he feels so responsible for his mum's finances, then I get angry at her... Aaaaahhhhh!

OP posts:

olgaga · 30/01/2015 23:38

Hope it goes well.

toastyarmadillo · 04/02/2015 04:10

Just wondering how Sunday went? I like little's suggestion

FishWithABicycle · 04/02/2015 04:27

Your DH needs to be the grownup here as his XW is clearly willing to allow her DS to squander critical years of his life so she doesn't lose income - massively irresponsible - and DSS needs a metaphorical kick up the arse to start putting in some effort. Tough love is indeed needed.

Littlef00t's suggestion is ideal - breaking that you know but keeping the financial arrangements unchanged for a reasonable period. HOWEVER - what pp say about him being bullied by his mum is also true. DSS needs to be supported to make decisions which are in his own best interests for his long term prosperity, and his mum - who he clearly loves dearly and always will - is encouraging him to make choices which are best for her own short term gain. This needs to be taken account of, so whatever new arrangements are set up need to protect him from this exploitation.

MythicalKings · 04/02/2015 05:39

It des have to be confronted because Ex is no entitled to some benefits once DSS is out of full time education and they will want the money back dating from when he left.

This happened to the parents of DS1's.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 04/02/2015 05:41

Why would he need to keep supporting him if he was working and not in education? Or even if he is not working? He is an adult.

I didn't get financial support as an adult and it's a kind of strange concept tbh.

MinceSpy · 04/02/2015 05:56

Your DH needs to deal with this sooner rather than later. If dss is no longer in education but xw is claiming benefits based on him being at college it's fraud. Not only will the money have to be paid back but dss and xw could both be prosecuted.

Dss is an adult who is happy to lie to his father, he's chosen not to be in college or get a job. I think an honest conversation and some tough decisions need to be made.

sashh · 04/02/2015 08:49

Why don't you give him a time limit, tell him you know he has dropped out and he has 3 months to find a job or another course and if he is still sitting on the sofa he won't be getting money from dad.

If he is not in college then he should be signing on, if he isn't then he is not in the system for things like a pension when he is older, I know that's a long way off, but payments now would make a difference.

PeppermintCrayon · 04/02/2015 09:08

You are effectively colluding in benefit fraud which puts you in an awkward position. I don't think you can or should play along with this, it's not a good situation for anyone.

PissedOffRestingFace · 04/02/2015 09:51

I think you should stop supporting him by paying either him or his mum. The drop in income should prompt her to force him to buck up his ideas and either return to college or get a job. But I also think that the money your husband currently spends on his portion of the maintenance/the money he would use to support him in some other way, should be put into a separate account to be given to him once he is responsible enough to not give it to his mum.

Original poster

PinkOrchid123 · 11/02/2015 13:56

I owe you guys an update - sorry it's taken so long!

We saw DSS on the following weekend and he started mentioning college stuff again. So DH raised an eyebrow and said, "You do know we're fully aware that you've given up college and haven't attended since November?" - So DSS started to stammer and insisted that he had actually been to the college, but meeting the career advisor there and discussing options for what he could do next. So DH and DSS then had a conversation about the fact that DSS needs to sort this out ASAP and that sitting on the sofa playing XBOX all day is probably not a great idea at all. (DSS blushed at that point - so that's definitely what he's up to.)

However, I'm a bit miffed because DH did not mention money at all. He neither said that he will keep payments going nor that he will cut them off, and DSS didn't ask...

I couldn't really jump in and bring it up at the time either. Maybe I should have. I don't know. Bit annoyed with that really.

We haven't heard from / seen XW since then. Assuming she's keeping quiet just in case talking to us might give us any ideas about cutting maintenance...

Since the chat, DSS has had a look into apprenticeships and spoken to a charity (I think) that helps young people find apprenticeships. He had an interview with them last week and has another meeting lined up for this Friday. They gave him a lot of information about what is available in the area and what isn't and told him to decide which kinds of jobs he could imagine doing.

I think we need to have another talk next time we see him where we mention that we give him until Easter to sort something out, but that maintenance payments will stop at that point. Or maybe DH should have that conversation directly with XW? What do you think?

OP posts:

BubbleGirl01 · 11/02/2015 14:14

Not sure I understand this. Your DH will still have to pay for the younger DS so he will still be paying something. What was the deal, that he cut the payments in half when the older DS finished with education?

BubbleGirl01 · 11/02/2015 14:17

Really don't think the DS should be involved in discussions about stopping the maintenance. That should be agreed with his mother. He shouldn't be 'piggy in the middle' on that.

BubbleGirl01 · 11/02/2015 14:26

Also think you should change your attitude to the DSSs mother. Presuming that 'she's keeping quiet just in case talking to us might give us any ideas about cutting maintenance...''. You seem to have the view that she's nothing but a money grabber when she is entitled to expect your DH to pay for his sons and £350 a month is small change for bringing up 2 lads. No wonder the poor DSS is having to lie to your DH.

Perhaps the DSS is having a wobble about what he wants to do with his life and the XW is worried that your DH will immediately cut the money when he may have plans to do something else.

Remember you have heard this 2nd hand from the younger DS. I can't understand why your DH wouldn't have immediately spoken to his son about it when informed that this might be the case.

Do you have DC of your own with DH?

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