To Think this is a new low in "social Mobility".

[smokepole]

Just browsing the updated DOE performance tables, "Weald of Kent" Grammar in Tonbridge has officially 0.0% FSM in its 1134 pupils. I am not picking on them in particular , because I would not be surprised to see
Borlasse's in Marlow the same or others, but I just think this is "quite a startling statistic"

This is surely a new low in "Social Mobility" I thought grammar schools were typically about 2% FSM but 0.0% sends out a terrible message.

optional holiday enrichment wonderful spin, can just imagine saying that to dd

Maybe adding in % applying and passing the 11+ on to school stats and a feed into a Ofsted ratings would make it a higher priority

YY I cant believe they dont already do this.

The threshold to qualify for FSMs is ridiculously low and is very selectve about exactly which poor children it benefit.

Just because a school has a low number of FSMs, does not mean it is populated only by children from middle class, highly educated, professional families. There are probably plenty of families that struggle in various ways using that school, and although the government has decided to use the bluntest of blunt tools to decide which children are deserving of help, there could well be plenty of families there that still need more than most.

Yes its hard to qualify fsm Ptolemy, so as recommended best to give all ten hours prep for test.

In this area state primaries are specifically banned from doing any more preparation than 1 VR and 1 NVR practice paper per year.

Well, we live in Kent, and while the 11+ results aren't part of Ofsted ratings, when we did all the tours at the state schools last year, it was a question asked at every tour, and every person running the tour could quickly reel off the school's pass rate. (the school DS goes to got 50% of those who took it through the year before last, there's places for around 23% of Kent pupils to go to Grammers).

The school tells you not to tutor, it is the Kent policy not to encourage tutoring or test prep because they want children to be 'level playing field' - however most people tutor for at least year 5, many from a lot earlier.

DS is in reception, additional tutoring/external paid for maths club has already started for some. I tell myself we're not joining in the maddness, but I think I might crack closer to.

It's unfair that the schools can't officially do prep, it's unfair that it does become an arms race and if external prep - either paid for or parents doing it - is the norm, you need to do that too. It would be a lot fairer if the schools could do prep for everyone.

Borlase is a very particular type of grammar school too and I wouldn't say a fair reflection of a typical grammar. It is in Marlow and it's catchment is very high achieving primary schools. I'll bet my bottom dollar that most of its pupils come from state primary's. It's just that the state primary's they come from are exceptionally high achieving. Great Marlow on the other hand is much bigger and takes a lot of High Wycombe and surrounding area children. What are the Grammar schools of Wycombe High and John Hampden FSM like for example?

Plus, just because you are entitled to FSM doesn't mean you claim them.

But also as someone said above, it's not hard to understand that academic parents have a academic children and that more often than not academic people are higher wage earners.

Just had a look myself. Wycombe High 2% and John Hampden 2.2%. They are good sized grammars a few miles of Borlase. Borlase is not reflective of a normal grammar at all.

Wycombe High - 6% in the last 6 years
John Hampton GS - 5.3% in the last 6 years
RGS - 4.9%

Highcrest - 42%
Cressex -45.2%
St Michael's RC -9.9%

X post - I've used the 6 year figures for all the schools.

There is a big difference between the Grammars and non Grammars in HW.

Chazs that makes Weald of Kent's 0.0% figure look even worse because there six year rate is 4.7% so traditionally as I said up thread they got 3 or 4 pupils a year with FSM. Looking at the other schools in Tonbridge the six year rate seems to be current FSM rate times 2.

(6 year rates ) : Tonbridge grammar 2.6% Judd 1.9% Hillview 19.1% Hugh Christie 35.7%.

It is evidence that perhaps Weald of Kent is being used as back up, for children not getting in to the super selective Tonbridge Grammar therefore making it harder for "normal Grammar pupils" to make it though.

However, something appears to have gone wrong this year IB results at Tonbridge Grammar , with the school averaging 226 Points or a C+ Average based on A Level equivalents.

Their six year rate.....

FSM for Tonbridge Schools: Hilview 8.8% Tonbridge Grammar 1.2% Judd 0.9% Hugh Christie 17.9% Hayesbrook 12.8%.

Interesting thing here is that Tonbridge Grammar and Judd are super selectives so are actually a lot harder than Weald of Kent to get into.

Additionally Bennnet Memorial with 7.7 FSM quoted earlier needs 3 years worth of Church attendance to get in. As far as I know it has not got past the church criteria for many years.

and being kent then no schools support fsm to get in?

yes but is not helping a government directive ( right word?) or a school thing?

A primary teacher has to teach all the children in her (less often his) class, they have to prepare for SATs which all children take.

This means that if they did want to do prep for GS it would have to take place after school and which children would attend?

The grammar schools could do more, there is no rule that says they have to select via 11+

Christ, I thought you were talking about female genital mutilation for the first few posts. Need more coffee.

There will be way more better comps where this is the case.The numbers of grammars are tiny, poorer kids being kept out of the better schools happens on a far bigger scale and one Sutton etc are concerned about.Funnily enough on here it is rarely mentioned or agonised over,I suspect because an awful lot of MNers benefit from this.

Also there seems to be a widespread assumption that grammar equals better and a leg up for social mobility if you get a place.On the same threads you then get people saying how shite they actually are,how comps are waaaay superior and last month or so there was a study showing how few grammar kids got into the best unis compared to the privately educated.

I thus therefore fail to see the point of all the angst.

I think grammar schools should ONLY be allowed if free tutoringlots and lots of itis being provided by the state for promising candidates from poor backgrounds, AND if admissions policies strongly favor students from poor families.

Otherwise it's just state-subsidized free private schooling for middle class people.

" private schooling" what makes it private?

By that token then we should have the lottery system or all parents given property in the best comp catchment areas as in some areas poorer children have less chance of getting into the best comps than a grammar.

Any school that operates a selective policy will end up, typically, with a low rate of FSM.

It is one reason I don't like it.

And those that select by wealth.......

Not sure where you got those stats from smokepole? Average score is 37 points at IB at TGS which is 545 UCAS points.

www.tgs.kent.sch.uk/school-news/2013/7/8/tonbridge-grammar-school-celebrates-exam-success?rq=Ib%20results

The grammar schools could do more, there is no rule that says they have to select via 11+

They are doing more however what can they do if the children they are supposed to be making more effort to out reach too, are being kept in the dark by their own school who will not even discuss it with them, tell them what 11+ is let alone help them prepare.

The primary schools need to do more.