The 48 hour D&V 'rule' and sick pay

[EdSheeran]

We get no pay for the first 2 days of each epidose and then SSP, so it's not surprising that many people don't remain off work.

As an immunocompromised person, I do get pissed off with people who've recently had D&V (or even worse, still ill!) come into the office.

I feel like there should be some sort of compromise e.g. working from home. The majority of us are flexi workers with laptops and remote access.

AIBU?

In the culture at the office where I work, it is frowned upon to take time off - regardless of the fact humans get ill, I think there's the general consensus that you're a hero if you drag yourself into the place feeling wretched.

They can't say anything to that effect, of course. But there are hints and looks and mutterings. grr..

Perhaps that's why people at your office still come in when they're not really better? They're worried people will think they're "sicknote skivers" (one of the jibes I got after a recent absence of D/V)

Totally agree, there is nothing worse than when someone comes into the office and makes everyone else I'll.. Particularly those who, like yourself, are immunocompromised.

People can't win though- some workplaces have that 3 episodes of sickness rule then a referral (I'm not entirely sure what this is but I've heard of it a few times) so what are they supposed to do?

My dads mum is a community nurse and she was saying that Her employer is very strict on absence due to sickness and mentioned the 3 periods of sickness rule.. So she's expected to go and care in the community to those who are also immunocompromised whilst also poorly herself!

If it's possible for people to do their work from home, I agree it sounds like a good idea for working from home to be permitted in the circumstances you describe.

Has anyone suggested this to management? If they see a benefit - i.e. recuperating workers don't infect other workers so overall sick rate goes down - they might be willing to consider it.

While I agree that sick people should really stay at home until better and past the 48 hrs, I do have some sympathy with sick people coming in before they're fully recovered. Too much sick leave triggers potential disciplinary reviews with HR. The agency workers in my office don't get any sick pay at all. We also have an office culture where taking time off ill is disapproved of. And things aren't busy at my work right now, and amount of sick leave taken has been used as a scoring factor in previous redundancy rounds.

So I can see why people come back to work before they should, despite the risks of spreading illnesses to everyone else.

Unfortunately for you but people who don't get paid and have commitments will just have to go in. Everyone has their own priorities to see to.

YADNBU - this is one of my absolute pet hates!
Like someone else had said, people think they're being heroes but all they're doing is A) spreading whatever it is they've got and B) setting an unreasonable precedence to everyone else in that they are all now expected to come into work when they're ill.

Drives me bloody mad.

I think we would be better off without the 48 hour rule as it gives people an incentive to lie. Hygiene is the second best control measure but can only be practiced if people are honest. Plus there's the fact that going into work sick can mean the difference between keeping a roof over ones head and not - unfortunate for immunocompromised individuals but homelessness is no good for health either.

I do think that in the case the OP mentions the colleagues should work from home though.

When sick pay was cut where I work people became more likely to come to work sick. Initially this resulted in various lurgies doing the rounds but they are no more common now than they were before - maybe we have built immunity.

We have also managed not to have D&V outbreaks due to a combination of working from home and use of disinfectant.

My employer uses the Bradford Factor to calculate time taken off sick in any 1 year period. Our critical level for starting proceedings (ie disciplinary action) is very low. People come in to work sick quite a lot, they fear for their jobs.

And only the most senior managers can work from home. Strange, that...

Gahh it's things like this that make me wonder what's wrong with the world. No one should feel like they have no choice but to work when they are ill!

I work in retail, I get no sick pay because I don't work enough hours, if I am off sick twice in 6 months I get a 'cause for concern' meeting and if I'm off again in that 6 month period I have a disciplinary hearing. When I first started working there I had a bug and took three days off, i got some pretty snotty remarks as a result, so ever since as soon as my symptoms have stopped or died down enough for me to be able to function I've gone into work knowing and expecting to make others ill because management expect me to drag myself in whether I'm symptom free or not, it's awful, and puts a much higher strain on the business as far as I'm concerned to have 1 person ill and then 3 more ill for varying periods of time because that 1 person didn't stay off than to have 1 person off for 3 days, but as it was put to me, it's my job 'on the line' if I make the decision to stay off till I'm symptom free and I need my job :/

I've not heard employers having a "rule" on d and v returners outside food handling and caring. So according to my employers procedures if I'm well enough to work, I should be in work.

Although do also bear in mind if this is just office work the transmission rate should be lower than jobs above or amongst young school children.

I don't think people who go in sick because they are scared of losing their jobs are unreasonable. I think employers who make their staff feel like they have no choice but to go in ill are unreasonable.

You anger seems a but misdirected. Do you think people enjoy dragging themselves to work when they are sick?

I didn't know there was a rule for work.

However just broken my salary down by working days in the week and 2 days unpaid would be my entire food and petrol budget for the week gone.

So I am afraid I would be one of those going in.

I had a really bad episode of D&V before Christmas, I was so bloody poorly, I wouldn't have wished it on my worst enemy and took 2 days off work with it, 1) because I felt utterly shit and spent the whole time on the toilet or with my head down it and 2) because I didn't want everyone at work to catch it too.

Quite a few people moaned and had something to say about me being off but I'm sure they would've complained more if I had spread it around the workplace!

Is there a "48 hour rule" for adults at work? I've had a quick Google and everything is about children in schools and childcare settings. There's certainly nothing in our sickness policy. Once you're fit and able to work, you're expected to be at work.

There's no way it would be OK for me to take another 48 hours after I was symptom free and I work in a school!

I wouldn't get pissed off with sick people, I'd get pissed off with your employer for having such a crap policy.

Its bloody awful people are afraid to take time off when they are ill. This 3 episodes of sickness rule is ridiculous. Some people get ill more often than others.
I think it is obvious when someone is taking sick leave to skive off and that is not necessarily people who have 3 episodes of sickness.
If you have D&V you need to stay off until you feel well and are symptom free.
I don't think workers had to out up with this rubbish when they had Unions to represent them. Employers tend to do what they damn well like now.

Davsmum. The "48 hour rule" requires that a child stays off for another 48 hours after they are symptom free. I absolutely agree that everyone should stay off until they are symptom free but I don't think there's anything in most sickness policies for adults, that requires they follow the 48 hour rule and take another 2 days once they're feeling better.

The 3 sickness absences thing is supposed to be for the benefit of the staff. Yes, some people are ill more often than others but it is a fact that people who are miserable at work take more time off than those who love their job. The policies are supposed to give the employer an opportunity to address those sorts of issues.....where they're used properly.

Bellerina exactly

I work from home and it means I can do a lot more work if I am feeling under the weather. Often it's the journey to work that means that I don't feel up to it. If you can hide at home keeping emails ticking over while drinking your Lemsip it makes perfect sense rather than ringing in sick and doing nothing. Clearly it depends how you feel - if you feel grotty you shouldn't be working whether you are at home or not.

There's no reason for office workers to be in the office every day whether ill or not and it would also ease congestion on the roads and trains. Some people like the office environment - that's fine, nobody should be forced to work at home but if you are happy to and want to, why on earth not with all the technology we have these days?

It can't work for everyone - clearly if you are a teacher or work in a shop you have to be on the premises. But if it can work, it should be made to. Managing people should be about getting the job done, rather than being seen to be in the office.

Technology ... In the unlicensed sector? Haha no money for any of this new fangled stuff which is why I dragged myself in today to write two vital reports despite feeling like death

So what happens at one of these disciplinary meetings?

Ive worked in places where you've had to have a leg falling off for people to be happy with you having a day off. Anything else is met with 'well suchabody coped' or 'are you sure you can't'

Where I work now the guidance is 72 hours as things like norovirus can be transmitted up to that time.

I am not pissed off with sick people. I am extremely fucked off with my employer as several of us have highlighted concerns and it's been ignored.

We work with very vulnerable people; older people and often visit care homes. To go into work ill could be castrophic.

Public sector! My phone hates me