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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think the teachers should help dd participate?

26 replies

PoppySausage · 24/01/2015 22:37

I may be being a bit pfb and overthinking, but dd (4) is at a local pre school which has just set up a fabulous forest school. Once a week they have a trip out into the garden and she school garden to do forest school things, but every week I get a note in the book bag saying 'Asked if she wanted to go but said no.'

I am an ex childminder and completely understand choice, but AIBU to wish the pre school would prep her a bit for what was coming and whip up some excitement in her to get her out in the fresh air?

She loves this sort of thing but the main problem seems to be she won't go if she is in the middle of something or realises her best friend isn't going. Her friend has forest school on a different day, but is going to a different school in September, so I am keen to encourage independence.

What do I do and AIBU to be worrying?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 24/01/2015 22:43

YANBU to be a bit concerned but have you actually spoken to them?

Do you know that they're not encouraging her?

I'm just thinking 'Asked if she wanted to go but said no', might be shorthand for 'We tried our best to encourage her but she was happy with what she was doing and really didn't want to go'?

TheAwfulDaughter · 24/01/2015 22:45

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skylark2 · 24/01/2015 22:46

Sounds very odd.

At both nursery and playgroup (two of each) when the class was going outside, everyone went. No option. They didn't have enough staff to man both inside and outside areas at once.

Thank goodness, since I suspect there would have been major grief if DS had got to school age thinking he could say "no thanks" to outdoor activities because he'd rather carry on reading.

Salmotrutta · 24/01/2015 22:57

And what are you doing to get your DD to participateOP?

And why do we make a "big deal" of Forest School in the UK when it's just a normal part of schooling in Europe/ Scandinavia?
They just do it.

I don't think my relatives who live in Sweden ask their children if they want to participate in "Forest School" - everybody just goes outside to do woodcraft/problem solving stuff at school over there.
It's just routine.

Why are children being "asked" about this.

Just tell them they are doing it.

Original poster
PoppySausage · 24/01/2015 23:06

Yes Worra, you could be right. I wondered if I was over stepping by raising it at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
PoppySausage · 24/01/2015 23:08

Awful - yes, this is why I am confused, am I just worrying about nothing?

OP posts:
Original poster
PoppySausage · 24/01/2015 23:08

Skylark - this is exactly the other side of my battle with this... Why are they asking her? Would it be better to just say 'we are going to forest school now!'

OP posts:
Original poster
PoppySausage · 24/01/2015 23:12

Salmo - I prep dd the night before, she packs her bag of clothes to get changed into on the day, we talk about what she will be doing... Then she doesn't go...

We do lots of outdoor stuff, I have an allotment so she is by no means cooped up at home.

It's just the fact that for 3 weeks she has just not gone and I suppose it makes me sad knowing she is missing something she would love as she hasn't tried it.

They have normal garden play daily, but this is more building shelters, cooking, making hot drinks, camp fires

OP posts:
TheAwfulDaughter · 24/01/2015 23:24

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Salmotrutta · 24/01/2015 23:51

I think the problem is the "asking".

They should just tell her. Job done.

I'm not a huge advocate of "asking" children ver much actually,...beyond "What time is it?".

I think children should be told directed very firmly about what will happen next.

Call me old fashioned...

Original poster
PoppySausage · 24/01/2015 23:56

So.... Do you all think I should ask to move her forest school day to that of her friends?

OP posts:
ravenAK · 25/01/2015 00:10

No, I'd just email/collar class teacher & say you'd like her to be told she's going, no options.

If they tell you this isn't possible, you can then have the discussion about other options.

dancingwitch · 25/01/2015 00:14

I think it may be something to do with how some places interpret the whole child led aspect of free play. DD was at two different pre-schools for a couple of terms and the difference in approach whilst following the identical a curriculum was fascinating. At pre-school A, all children would leave after 3hrs clutching the same craft thing made out of, for example, a loo roll as that had been on that day's plan and, at some stage during the morning, all children were made to do it; at pre-school B, DD never did craft despite loving it and despite there being some really imaginative craft and loads of resources as DD was "best friends" with a more dominant girl who didn't like craft and so DD never did it. I ended up having a word with pre-school B who told me that they couldn't interfere as it was supposed to be child led so they couldn't make DD leave whatever game she was playing with her best friend and start doing craft even though they thought DD would be thrilled to be doing it within minutes of being separated from her best friend & starting the activity. I asked them to be a bit more forceful with her on the basis that a 4yo is unlikely to know what's best for them but they said that there was nothing they could do.

BackforGood · 25/01/2015 00:25

I agree with Skylark, RavenAK and others - I would expect staff to take all the dc whose turn it is, out to Forest school. The issue is often the 'interpretation' of the EYFS as dancingwitch says - but my interpretation is once the child is out in the forest school, then we could follow their lead / interest. they aren't going to extend themselves, move out of what they know, if not taken places, and introduced to things, are they ?

payuktaxrichardbranson · 25/01/2015 01:22

Actually I can see where op is coming from my ds is quiet, compliant well behaved middle of r the road academically and completely and utterly overlooked by every one he's got to lower sixth without any teacher taking an infrared in him, or being singled out for praise and getting a certificate for any thing. Teachers take the way type and only pay attention to the naughty ones or the chatty or the gifted. Op make a fuss and get your child included before it is too late,I wish I'd been more pushy.

hiccupgirl · 25/01/2015 08:56

I would also expect staff to encourage her more particularly if you tell them you want her to go out for the session. I do think it's not great that child led education in some preschools has been interpreted as the child decides pretty much everything they want to do as it does mean some kids miss out as they either don't push themselves to do new things or they are very influenced by other children.

My other concern is that it doesn't set them up well for starting school where there are far fewer choices. My DS does a forest school session in his Reception class and there is no choice whether the kids do it or not. They can chose what they do when they're outside but they all have to take part.

PtolemysNeedle · 25/01/2015 09:58

I agree that it's down to this nurseries interpretation of 'child led'.

It might well be worth asking of your dd can swop days. Remind them that they are also supposed to encourage 'risk taking' in your child, as well as building her resilience.

BackforGood · 25/01/2015 13:39

I was watching 24hours in A&E last week, and there was a 5yr old who had been taken to A&E because he's got a bead stuck in his ear. The mother was trying to negotiate with him, as to whether he would allow the Dr to try and get it out. she was then bribing him - started off with cake and ended saying she'd buy him a massive box of lego if he'd let the Dr have another go at getting it out. He said "no" and she just let it stand. They went away with the bead still in his ear. (In the 'catch up' bit they did at the end, she'd gone and bought him the lego even though he'd not "let" the Dr try and get it out.)

I was thinking..... wtf ??? (I don't usually swear, but felt it was something needed to be discussed on MN, and that seems to be normal MN language Wink). Surely there are times where the parent or adult in charge - so in the OP's case, the Nursery staff, actually make the decisions, and just tell the dc what is happening.

Idefix · 25/01/2015 13:55

op when you were a childminder how much would you push your mindees to take part in something that is optional after they have said no thanks I am happy doing x?

Open door policy to outside space is a gold standard in eys if it is possible in a safe manner. when I worked in eys this what we aimed for with the acceptance that some children had particular preferences for inside or outside.

Why not do forest school at home? This will give her an idea of what it is and mean she may opt to do it at preschool, if she turns you down then maybe it is something she is just not interested in?

Idefix · 25/01/2015 13:56

Opps not push, encourage - don't mean that you would force your mindees to do anything they didn't want to do.

BackforGood · 25/01/2015 14:30

but Idefix - surely, as an adult, you would expect to make decisions on behalf of the child quite often...be it in a Nursery, at home with own family, or at a CM.
"We're going out now" is what I'd expect my CM to say, when they are heading off to the park, not "Do you want to go out?" What would you do if 1 did and 1 didn't ?
Going back to Nursery - there are some times of day when the toys have to be tidied away, to serve lunch for example... the staff tell the dc that, not ask them if they'd like to...it's all part of living as part of a community with other people, sometimes you have to do things, because it is time to do them.
Same with bed times - I wouldn't even leave my 13 yr old to self regulate, they need to have some decisions taken for them.

Idefix · 25/01/2015 18:10

I think back that is the whole point of ideas like open access to outside and child led times. It gives children the opportunity to choose and make decisions that are otherwise are not available to them.
You are quite right that many decisions and activities are decided on by adults, there may be no choice to opt out of when it is tidy up time or when it is time to go home but within activities there can be choice. It sounds like forest school is optional for ops dc and she currently choose to not partake.
I have watched practitioners insist on making very young children take part in activities such as circle time and the child in question who has been reluctant has sat there but not engaged or worse has been distressed. If left these children do often join in with the activity when they feel comfortable and have enjoyed themselves.

WalkJumpClimb34 · 25/01/2015 19:06

Ask the teachers to tell her it is Forest School time and out she must go. Tell the teachers that you want her to go out and not ask her but to tell her. Surely that's is fair enough.

BackforGood · 25/01/2015 23:29

Yes, but because of the actual building so many Nurseries are in, it's often not possible to have real freeflow all the time. I visit a LOT of Nurseries over the course of the year, and, whereas I'd agree with you on your point about too many practitioners try to make dc who are not developmentally ready for it do circles times, or just 'too long at' circle times, I can tell you there's a considerable % who operate EYFS - offering choice of what they do when they are outside, etc., within the context of all the dc having to go out together at set (or negotiated) times of day.

TheNewStatesman · 26/01/2015 02:46

Sounds a bit weird to me. I mean, if she wanted to eat sweets and watch TV all day long, would that be OK?

I have folding money that says she has no dislike of forest school but just needs a little help with transitioning from one activity to another.