To think loud, silly behaviour in children is impossible to deal with?

[lecce]

Dh is away at il's this weekend and I have struggled so much with our two boys - I feel utterly defeated.

What I just can't deal with is the shouting and shrieking they do. It just triggers something in me so that I lose it too and we are all shouting. . Ds1 has always been a whiner about doing stuff he doesn't like, but that seems to have morphed into shouting now, and speaking to me so rudely. He is 7, yet seems to think he can speak to me like I'm nothing - and at top volume.

Ds2's specialism is high-pitched shrieking, singing Frozen ridiculously loudly, repeating what is said to him, running around - it's just silly, typical 5 year old stuff. Why can't I deal with it?

I see threads on here with people saying they wouldn't accept such and such from a child, but what do you do when they just don't care what you say? I read one thread where a woman said she had sent her dd to her room for the whole day for something, serving her basic meals up there. I told ds to go to his room today to give us both time to calm down, and he wouldn't stay there for 2 minutes. I feel such a failure and feel they are going to have awful memories of childhood.

They have had a fairly tough time lately in that dh has returned to work after being a sahp, so they have had to adapt to CM etc, but, tbh, they have always been a bit like this. I teach in a fairly tough secondary school with no real difficulties, yet I am defeated by my own under-10s. Btw, their behaviour is perfect at school.

How do people deal with this? It just seems impossible to me.

They just know how to push your buttons. My mum used to take our stuff away if we were really bad, harsh but she was a single mum to 3, she had to be tough.
My SIL uses reward charts with hers (8 and 4), really works especially with the older one, I think it's the whole carrot vs stick approach.
You aren't a failure.

I have no advice, I just wanted to empathise! Mine just 'play' noisy and stupid fighting games all the time- I can't trust them to be in the same room for longer than five minutes.

Yadnbu
I've had this today and it's driven me to the edge of reason.
I want to shout shut up shut up shut up. I'm glad they are happy and I can't work out why it's so decking annoying!

Sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. Can you get some time to yourself when DH is back?

I used to work with children and it is MUCH easier to tolerate other people's children than your own IME.

Totally know what you mean about the noise and silliness pressing all your buttons. It's harder in winter when everyone's cooped up indoors. Is throwing them out in the garden/going to a park an option? That's my failsafe when the DDs are getting the sillies. They really don't care if it's cold and wet and I get some peace.

I know exactly how you feel, mine are like this too, at top volume. My 4yr old especially doesn't care about any form of punishment. If you remove his things he shrugs, if you put him in his room he just plays in there until he can come out (when he has finished smashing things against the door).
Nothing seems to bother him, he just doesn't seem to care enough.
He will then go through the motions of apologising but will do the same thing 5 mins later. If you put him in time out he will shout and scream at first but will usually end up singing to himself. Then when he is allowed out he will run back into the lounge shouting 'I'm back'
It is exhausting and frustrating and I don't quite know what to do with him.

You have my sympathy and I empathise but no advice of any use from this quarter I'm afraid.

I have a very low tolerance for this type of stuff. I just used to say "Enough!" "find something quiet to do or get your pyjamas on and into bed" I never ever had to enforce that one for some reason. They were usually quiet enough for a while until sanity returned....

Could you engage them in a quiet activity such as getting out a board game or would it just end in anarchy?

Take them out and make them walk for miles.
Have you got some woods/fields/park land anywhere near?

I have 2 boys - grown up now, but I could not have stayed indoors with them at that age. They just go stir crazy.

Do they do any clubs or activities?

I think they have to expend energy and you have to channel it in a positive way or it just comes out in a negative way.

Why is dh spending the weekend with his parents ?
Couldn't he have taken one of the kids with him ??

Not in a bad way, but it's nice to know others have this too .

They, especially ds1, love being outdoors, and he will be practising football & cricket for hours. The problems come when, as is inevitable at times, he has to be called away from this.

We haven't been indoors all day, been to swimming and riding (they both do 2/3 activities each, not all at weekend, which they love and have chosen) and it seems to me that half the problem today has been all the coming and going from one thing to another. This has pissed ds1 off, really, but ds2, if we stay in, spends hours doing Frozen-related stuff, which gives me the guilt.

Stupidly, within 5 minutes of the last meltdown just before bed, we sat and looked at an Atlas together and it was great. So they can do outdoors and indoors stuff, it's just me who can't deal well with their trouble with transitions. Ds2 had got down from the dinner table and put Frozen CD back on, loudly. I switched it off and after dinner he had a screaming session that I had pressed 'off' not 'pause'. I lost it with him. I'm sure ds1 did a better job of calming him than I did, yet 10 minutes later everything was fine, but just another shit memory created.

Myotherusername I am so jealous - that seems to be the type of thing others can do that I just can't.

I would always try and call mine away from their activity with food.
They get very absorbed in things they enjoy, but they also get hungry and thirsty.
Preparing something appetising and allowing them to see it is a great way of creating a smooth transition from indoors to outdoors for example.

Personally - I would let DS2 watch Frozen as a way of winding down after physical activity, and use the time to do something with DS1. The only issue would be that he would have to keep the volume under control. If he wants it on very loud I would get his ears/hearing checked. Consider getting him some headphones. It is a phase that he will outgrow - so use it to your advantage.

Mine are the same age. I agree with the taking things away strategy. Mine can get noisy, and if they're playing I'd try to send them outside (or head for a playbarn or someplace where they can run around without getting in trouble)

If they're fighting, then I take whatever they're fighting about away. If it isn't a physical item, then they'll lose either a high-value privilege (usually their tablet or TV, which actually feels more like a punishment for me, but it works) or I take away their next outing/playdate/party, etc.

It feels shit, but I've had to resort to extremes in the past, like (faking) putting the ipad in the bin, or turning off the TV at the switch where they can't reach to get it back on.

With the whining & tantruming by the 7 year old (this is really mean) I get my phone out and point it in their direction. When they ask what i'm doing, I say I'm videoing their behaviour so I can put it on youtube and see what their friends/teacher think of it. Never seen a kid run into their room so fast!

But as hard as I try, half the time I feel like I'm failing anyway...

Good luck.

I can only say how I handled it with mine and that was to have zero tolerance the second I could see behaviour heading in the wrong direction

I would take whichever kid it was right out of the situation and only let them rejoin if they could behave

It helped that I never really did the playdates/family get together/wind up situations as I don't tolerate them myself

my kids have rarely played up in company

lecce - the have always been very compliant :o I am very lucky. They are only 13 months apart - now 14 and 13 and apart from the odd bit of back chat from DS2 - I never get any bother from them.

I definitely agree with getting out with them if you feel yourself losing your temper. Otherwise, actually doing te opposite of what you feel like doing usually works. i.e. you want them to go away and get out your face, but if you actually organise a structured activity with them, a puzzle a game or a craft, it actually improves their behaviour and you can then leave them to get on with it, or continue to play as by this point it is reasonably enjoyable :)

You sound like you really need a break!
Consequences. What happens when they don't behave as you expect? Can you transfer behaviour techniques from teaching? (Exhausting I know!!)

Not much advice but lots of sympathy, I can control 20 Rainbows (5-7yr olds) get them to tidy up and get silence in seconds without ever raising my voice but my 6 year old never listens to me, her teachers tell me she is an angel at school though and DH never has to repeat an instruction. I have found walking away rather than shouting at her when she's really pissing me off helps, because then I don't end up shrieking at her and feeling guilty for it and eventually she stops being a brat to see where I've gone (obviously I wouldn't walk off if her silliness was dangerous)

I told ds to go to his room today to give us both time to calm down, and he wouldn't stay there for 2 minutes

You need to enforce what you say. He needs to know that if you tell him to go to his room for x amount of time, he will stay there for that long, even if you have to carry him there kicking and screaming 50 times before he listens and realises you mean it.

My 7 year old seems to be having a couple of early onset teenage, surly tantrums ATM. If I tell him something and he doesn't listen, I give him one more chance before physically moving him.

Recent example was in the morning...I was upstairs and called the dc up for a wash/teeth brush. Ds1 rolled his eyes and ignored me. Gave me a surly okay, in a minute! but didn't move. So I went and took him by the hand and pulled him (gently) upstairs. He tried to wriggle away half way up the stairs, but I insisted on taking him right to the sink where I told him to stand still and washed his face for him. Then I put toothpaste on his brush and told him to open his mouth so I could brush his teeth (in my most sickly sweet voice).

By this point he was looking at me like I was a maniac...it's years since I've brushed his teeth for him. He asked me why and I told him that if he was going to act like a baby not listening I'd have to start treating him like one, and have a couple of examples of what that would mean...always holding my hand outside, me coming into his class to unbutton his coat and so on.

It seems to have worked a treat. There's nothing that will strike fear into an average 7 year old than the thought of being treated like a baby!

It's always far worse with your own - they always seem to know how to wind you up!!

It's a good while since mine were little and annoying, but things that sometimes worked were:

Not raising my voice to get them to be quiet. Speak more quietly but firmly, try to lower the general volume level and they often start speaking more quietly.

Not responding to any requests/demands made in a rude/silly/shouty/whiny voice. 'I can't understand you unless you speak to me sensibly'

Anything they are being silly with removed 'If you can;t play sensibly with this, we'll put it away until you are a bit older (The frozen CD might get this treatment !)

Giving them 'important' jobs to occupy them.
getting them out into the fresh air and running them tired.

Try to ignore wind ups - no reaction unless it is dangerous, it is basically attention seeking, only reward sensible behaviour with attention.

And praise, praise, praise sensible behaviour - children always want attention, but they want positive attention more. When I worked with children (some of whom had behavioural problems) I always tried to find something positive to say about their behaviour - even if it is just 'It was very kind when you helped x do y' or 'Youplayed really nicely with x' - so you could talk about how nice it was to look at the maps with them etc.

Start each day with a clean slate - however hard, try not to let yesterdays bad behaviour colour todays interactions.

Good luck - it is very hard wok ,specially when they are close in age, and when you are on your own

Haven't read all this advice, OP, but I found that Vitamin B Complex was brilliant for giving me a lot more patience with my dd when she was small. Taken in tablet form it takes about three weeks to kick in, but it is only good for you.

Do you have a garden? I kick mine out into the garden when they are hyper, tell them one can bounce on the trampoline and the other count out loud 100 bounces. It uses up a bit of energy. Pre-trampoline I sent them out with skipping ropes. If they came in shouting, straight back out again. All weathers, I just give them hats, gloves, umbrellas

Lots and lots and lots of outdoor play and excersise.

Footi, running, tag, park, woods, swimming, soft play if you can bear it.

Tire the buggers out.

no advice. just sympathy.

I despair of my 2. Constant screeching, bashing walls and tearing around. Roll on summer when all the kids can play out the front again.

I used to give mine big trouble when they got lke this and I was sensing a meltdown from me coming on.

shouting, (not too loud) "Right that's it, now you are in trouble!"

and then grabbing them and blowing raspberries (ds) or kissing all over her face(dd) used to reduce the tension.

there was one stage when they needed a good cuddle and tickle and roll about with me for some reason....

also giving ds a hug helps to calm him down.

heavy work... lifting moving stuff.

excercise... (I make him run round the school field sometimes if he is a bit over excited wehen he comes out of school)

I bribe quiet behaviour with computer time. I also threaten to take away but this does not work as there are more strops. sometimes if I do take it away, he can earn it back by being good.

feed him

water him give him a drink.

It is currently taking me approx 45 mins to get DD to spend 4 minutes in her room. I reset the timer every time she comes out.

There is an improvement though, it used to take 1 hr 30 to get her to do 3 mins.

I feel your pain OP.

They have been in the garden since 9am (controversial I know on MN) but I had to call them in as ds1 was yelling at ds2 not to climb over a small fence in his Elsa dress. Why he thinks that's his responsibility, or that they way to deal with it is to shriek at ds2, I don't know. FFS, I don't think I'm that much of a shouter . I gave them one more chance not to shout in the garden, and 2 minutes later they were at it again. Apparently, ds2 was annoying ds1 by going up and down the steps from the patio to the lawn, while ds1 wanted the patio gate shut as he was propping his wickets up on it. This is the type of draining argument that happens all the time. I said no more garden, but 5 minutes later they came to me with a solution they had negotiated. They've been out there a good 30 minutes now with no conflict so I can brace myself for shopping (including shoes ) that's next on our agenda.

Sorry, I know no one wants to read all that, but it has helped me to write it down to get a picture of what actually happens with them!