To think that food banks miss the point a bit?

[orangecranberry]

I donated some tins today at Tesco, but was thinking looking in the trolley that it looked an unappetising and generally unappealing array of stuff, largely due to the fact you can't of course donate items that would make a meal such as meat or veg or bread - baked beans without toast can't be too pleasant.

Also, if someone is lacking heat (freezing here just now!) soap, any number of things they might need, food might miss the point. In other words, feeding themselves might be less of a priority than being warm, or putting petrol in the car (many people need cars to work before people chime in with 'sell the car then') - wouldn't it be better if people could go to the CAB, doctors and get a referral not for food but for a smallish sum of cash?

Surely far nicer to spend £1.50 on a loaf of bread and tin of beans than to have just the tin of beans given to you?

Can I ask those who do donate to food Banks to put in the occasional pack of pet food, as many struggling families have to give up long loved family pets. This in turn overburdens the animal shelters.

I think that's s great idea Sugarman I was in the Entertainer the other day and the check out operator told me that by people being asked to round up by a penny or two they raised nearly a million so far for Great Ormond St. Asking everyone for a tiny amount is incredibly effective fundraising.

As an aside - whichever poster said "put extra layers on to get warm." I'd imagine that isn't wildly effective if everything is a bit damp and musty because you can't get anything properly dry and you have a rumbling belly. I know I get really cold if I'm hungry. Just struck me as an insensitive thing to say.

Food banks serve their purpose adequately IMO. They are a temporary provision, and there are other organisations that food banks will signpost people to if they need help with budgeting.

There have always been people in need, it's just that the way the country is dealing with that has changed. I don't see any problem with the charity sector helping people in this way, it shouldn't all be down to the government I don't think.

The fact that many food banks will only accept three referrals per family says to me that they know what they are doing and people really do only need their help temporarily if they help themselves in other ways.

Maybe we shouldn't be challenging how effective food banks are and instead challenge how effective our Government is if we are one of the richest countries in the world but we have people in reliant on food banks.

If the haves and have nots split the voting public 50/50 then it's obvious that one party will bash the poor mercilessly while the other talks endlessly about social justice. And, voila, you have your readymade constituencies, just add hot water.

(Food banks are just a side effect.)

How exactly should they "help themselves in other ways"?

I thought this was going to be a thread about how in a decent society we wouldn't need food banks, but it wasn't. So I was going to rant about how, you know, it's nice that people care enough to give, but that it is a fucking outrage that there is any need for food banks at all.

Then PlentyofPubeGardens said 'Wouldn't it be better if people didn't need food banks at all? Isn't it fucking disgusting that in 2014 so many people are having to rely on charity to eat? Isn't it disgusting that govt. are using what should be simple charity to paper over the massive cracks in a system, which we all already pay for, that is supposed to be a safety net to ensure everybody has the minimum they need to live?' Which is exactly what I was going to say.

If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

That quote about there being no society made me angry.

Brings to mind the Inspector's final speech from An Inspector Calls - after Mr Birling has voiced some rather Thatcher-esque views on how man is responsible for himself only.

"But just rememeber this. One Eva Smith has gone - but there are millions and millions of Eva Smiths and John Smiths left with us, with their lives, their hopes and fears, their suffering and a chance of happiness, all intertwined with our lives and what we think and say and do. We don't live alone. We are members of one body. We are responsible for each other. And I tell you that the time will soon come when, if men will not learn that lesson, then they will be taught in fire and blood and anguish".

It's [b]this[/b] government that has [i]put[/i] the cracks into the system. Originally, the welfare state was designed to prevent this from happening.

Food bank use has soared since the fucking cunting Tories did away with crisis loans.

So yanbu but it's papering over a massive great crack as best it can.

Moomin I was thinking about that quotation too.

Food bank use has also soared because of sanctions and zero hour contracts.

people really do only need their help temporarily if they help themselves in other ways.

How would that be, by not getting sanctioned if you are mentally ill, perhaps?

Sanctions and Mental Illness

Or being sanctioned for attending a job interview?

that people take the piss and need to be reminded of thier obligations as well as rights.

It has been proven time and again that there are very few that 'take the piss', taking punitive measures against those who don't 'take the piss' and who are in need is not the answer.

Of course, the Victorians had the church to keep people alive where laissez faire would otherwise have let them die. But, the modern church is nowhere near up to the job.

The only person that I know of whose death has been attributed to having his benefits stopped is David Clapson. But, I'm sure that he's not alone.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/victims-britains-harsh-welfare-sanctions

Exactly, Hovis. Of course no-one can argue against the idea that everyone should contribue to society and be self-sufficient if they can. All political parties believe that and would get no support from the electorate if they did not. But the statement by Thatcher that "There is no such thing as society" was picked up and used as representative of her views because it was borne out by the relentlessly regressive policies of her administration which not only included cuts in welfare and public spending but also the slashing of the top rate of income tax from 83% to 40% and the planned introduction of the poll tax.

Sorry, OP, if you intended this to be more a thread on the practical issues facing food banks but it is difficult to avoid the question of how we arrived in this sorry situation in the first place.

Excellent, relevant quote, Moomin - sums up exactly the importance and value of living in a society.

Not at all - it's an interesting discussion. Nooka summed up my thoughts nicely on this matter.

The issue with crisis loans is that as far as I know you need to be claiming benefits in order to access them and I am not sure I think that is necessarily where we need to be putting all or most of our resources. There are masses of people working hard for very little and they run out of money too.

I also have to confess that the dismissive 'No petrol? Walk to work.' post up thread annoyed me, as did 'wear extra clothes' when I pointed out it is cold.

The fact is, survival - comfortable survival - is down to more than food and this is the issue with food banks.

My SIL has used the local food bank before. I know what she got because I went with her, and I can tell you that she got more than the food that gets put in the bins in supermarkets. She got toiletries (soap, shampoo, toothpaste, deoderant, sanitary products), fresh/frozen food (meat, veg, bread, milk, butter, cheese), shelf food ( tins of thing like soap, beans, spaghetti, packet things pasta, rice, noodles, jars of sauces, cerial, dilute pop), extras (pet food, toilet roll, cleaning bits like multi purpose spray, bleach, washing up liquid, washing powder). It really helped her out when she had nothing and had to feed 4children.

It would be better to reinstate crisis loans, I agree.

Why doesn't someone start a petition to reinstate them???

Hi I'm the poster of the if it's cold you can put on extra clothes or in no petrol you can walk. I wasn't saying it to be dismissive but to make the point that humans can survive without heating or food but not food. Without food you die but without petrol or heating you won't (otherwise we as a species would have died out centuries ago)

I'm not trying to be dismissive of the fact there is a real need in this country just now and poverty is pretty bad but I don't think it should be the responsibility of food banks to hand out cash for heating or petrol. That is the failings of this government.

Oh and if you think I'm someone who is in a position that none of this is relevant to me then you would be wrong too. DH and I got made redundant at the same time last year (joys of working for the same company). I have fortunately got a new job that I'm starting next week. We will now have 5 weeks to I get paid, DH will no longer get any JSA because I am working and my earnings will keep him. This is fair enough and we will get by on one wage .
Our problem is we have not been unemployed long enough to apply for any crisis loan (or as I think it's called now a hardship loan). You need to be unemployed for 6 months or longer to apply for any help. We will have less than £380 to buy a bus pass, pay bills and feed 2 adults and a child for 5 weeks. I have meal planned and we should just about make it on the food front.

I'm grateful and feel fortunate that I know how to cook as if we had to rely on processed/ freezer to oven type food we would not make it and would run out of food after week 3. A lot of people don't have the ability to cook or are on a prepay metre so the electric/ gas runs out and can't use the oven. These are the people that do need food banks and should be getting more help in the form of hardship loans etc.

The issue I have with crisis loans is that firstly they are a loan and secondly, they didn't help those working on a low income.

If we are going to help people who are struggling three times in a twelve month period with food, why not give them a small amount of money too?

I imagine by the time someone is left with nothing in their cupboards to eat, they are also left with no money and no money is very restrictive indeed.

Pumpkin thank you for clarifying.

However, I imagine if someone is hungry they will use the money to buy food: in fact I imagine they will.

The issue is that food solves no problem other than to stop people being hungry. Money, however, potentially can.

My point is that if we are going to accept people sometimes run out of food due to a low/no income, then they also run out of other things needed to keep them safe and well.