To think that parents should have a say in how often religious leaders lead assembly in a community school

[ReallyTired]

I naively thought I had chosen a community school. Yet my daughter is having an assembly once a week with a church of england vicar. I am not an atheist and I really do not want to withdraw her from RE and assemblies, but I feel once a week is excessive for a community school. You might want to ask why I object to a vicar coming every week when I attend church, but his take on theology is different from mine. I want to be in complete control of my daughter's religious upbringing/ indoctrination.

I feel angry by the sly way it has been done. I know that there is a legal requirement for christian worship, but weekly visits is indocrination. Its more often than we go to a different church. My daughter's school is one third muslim and they are essentially having a christian religious service once a week. The new head never told anyone that she was going have the vicar every week. Why does the govenment do nothing about "Christian" trojan horses? My daughter's school is more religious than any of the church schools I attended.

I want schools to be clear in their prospectus how much religion there is. I feel its wrong that a new head can unilaterally make a community school more religious than a church school without telling/ consulting the parents. I feel its an abuse of power to make a community school ultra religious.

elfonshelf
I said "rarely" not never. There are always exceptions to every rule. Most young children are not quite so independent thinking. I will not let my son get confirmed at the age of 13 as I think he is too young.

I feel its wrong that humanism is off the curriculum. It makes you wonder what people are scared off. I would love offer a humanist a cup of tea and have a chat about the world and religion if they were willing.

Every child in the land is indoctrinated by their parents

Bullshit. Some parents actually allow their children to think for themselves.

Have you tried that?

If they are not old enough to take on board the issues then you fucking wait. Have some respect for their individuality, please. Sorry, but anything else is a form of emotional abuse.

Young children are incapable of thinking for themselves. It is why they are so incredibly vulnerable. Most children believe exactly what their parents/ teachers say.

I do encourage my children to think for themselves, but I except this is a developmental milestone. Piaget has theories on how a child's thinking skills develop. Expecting a five year old to think about religion in a serious way is unrealistic as their thinking is very concrete. Children typically develop sophicated abstract thinking in their teens.

Piaget theories

Teen rebellion is the time when child stop believing everything their parents say. It is a brilliant age when teens reject crap from their schools and families.

I think your attitude is disgusting. Honestly. And you seem to be bizarrely proud of yourself for brainwashing your children.

Young children are vulnerable, yes, and do indeed believe what they are told by trusted adults.

Shame on those adults who fill their heads with medieval clap trap and lie to them about how the universe works.

I hope that they are more intelligent than their mother (father, whatever) and laugh in the face of your deluded and ridiculous belief system. And I really, really mean that for their sake.

And no...you do NOT encourage your children to think for themselves if you are an advocate of any kind of indoctrination...which specifically means teaching them to accept something wholesale without question.

How is it a trojan horse?

Christianity is mostly is it not in its modern form roughly in line with our state and values as a country?

There isn't some sly agenda from the vicar to get pupils ready for proper exposure to extremist preachers who want to turn the clock back to the middle ages....and impose some ancient law on us all?

That was the supposed aim of the actual trojan horse plot?

Vicars....have you personally known or met any? I have met and known some very eccentric vicars and its all more about being the social hub of the village, sports cars and flower arranging....with lashings of wine....

I totally disagree that a child under thirteen is rarely capable of independent religious thought

Same here I am raising a child to question everything she caught some of that program The Big Question, last Sunday talking about the existence of God, She said she feels he doesn't exist and isn't real.
She is at a religious school that has mass and shock.....a priest on site.

I didn't say yay or nay simply " its important to question things all the time"

Shame on those adults who fill their heads with medieval clap trap and lie to them about how the universe works.

Hmm... Perhaps this happens in some families or churches, but it's by no means universal. My parents took me to church when I was a child and at no point did anyone fill my head with medieval claptrap or lie to me about how the universe works. The church we went to was very theologically liberal. I think it's a shame that the diversity of religious thought is sometimes misrepresented by those who object to very conservative theologies.

I too would object if people lied to my children about how the universe works, but I haven't seen that happen in any church I've been to.

YABU
Pick your battles.
If you provide an appropriate investigative thinking home environment without indoctrination in any direction your child will grow out of it

BUT
the more you protest, the more interesting it will seem to your child
be warned

Christianity is mostly is it not in its modern form roughly in line with our state and values as a country?

Doesn't mean it needs to be preached in schools.

Talks from a variety of religious leaders - great, but I expect the school to balance that with presenting alternatives such as Humanism.

given how much mumbo jumbo is involved, religion gets far too much attention. Weekly religious leaders from different faiths? I just think that's a bit of a waste of time. Far too much attention.

I agree with written guarantee. Religion is still given far too much importance in public life. It's time to remove it, to the place where it belongs, ie homes and places of worship.
As an atheist, I never felt the need to remove any of my children from assemblies, because any religious content was minimal ,and really just a token gesture and it tended to go over their heads. I probably would have considered it if they'd been at the school the op describes.
Re independent thought in children, I was brought up by religious parents, taken to church every sunday and attended church school until age 9. Christianity was definitely presented as a fact to me, yet I never believed a word of it. I was made to be confirmed at 13, yet I already knew it wasn't what I wanted.

Op your language and thoughts really unsettle me. I suspect the belief that young children are incapable of independant thought is largely because people don't illicit/listen to children. I do not consider my own dc to be unusual in coming to there own conclusions regarding whether higher beings god, gods, angels, monsters, fairies, Father Christmas, Easter bunny do or do not exist. By the age of 3/4 ds told me people can't fly therefore angels, god and Father Christmas were pretend...

Does anyone know of a child that has been 'converted' to/started to follow a particular faith because of 'indoctrination' in assembly?

Most struggle to stay awake...

nannyog no, I haven't. One of my children expressed a brief interest in going to church, but only because his best friend went with his family.
I would get a bit annoyed if people started telling my kids about things like 'going to hell' and the 'devil' at school, because things like that are frightening to young children, or if they were teaching them sexist or homophobic beliefs rooted in religion.

You sound way over the top on this! Unless you are suggesting the vicar is going to be ranting about fire and brimstone and everyone going to hell? I'm sure he will just be preaching acceptance and love which can't do anyone any harm.

Will all the Muslim children be withdrawn from assembly? If so take you DD out too if you feel so strongly, but I think you are massively overreacting.

Even small children can show some discrimination in their beliefs.

And what makes you so sure your beliefs are the right ones? Surely a child should be exposed to many ideas and religions so that they can make their own choice as they get older.

I'm not sure there are hundreds of children being indoctrinated by a weekly assembly from the local vicar, either.

What would concern me more would be the less obvious stuff, like Operation Christian Child, which is sold to children at assemblies across the country as a simple act of kindness to less fortunate children, rather than the reality of its being a very popular and successful tool for Christian evangelism.

• Operation Christmas Child

SorchaN

No, most parents and churches don't do this. Agreed. Most religious parents would be horrified at the thought of "indoctrinating" their children.

Just not this particular one, for some reason.

I believe it is our job as parents to educate our child about religion so I chose a school which was probably the least religious in the borough. However a new head came in and started to bring in the local baptist minister to work with the children on lots of occasions. I wouldn't mind so much but she has an evangelical ethos and sees it as her mission to convert everybody. I know because her son was in my son's class. I don't think this is appropriate. She distributed leaflet about operation Christmas child but didn't get much response because our parents are quite lazy! I'm struggling to find a way to express my discomfort with her visiting the school without sounding anti-Christian. I'm not. I wouldn't mind representatives from different christian churches and different faiths but I don't understand why this is the only person who is invited.

I would be very uncomfortable with one person coming in very regularly teaching the children one religious view as fact.

My children have been withdrawn from the religious worship, not from religious education because I want them to know about every religion just not being taught it as "We believe..."

We moved last year and the HT at their school is brilliant. We live in a large multi-cultural area and there are a lot of children who are not allowed in the assemblies. She takes them all and teaches them what is going on in the assembly on a "Some people believe..." basis. She often has visitors in from different religions, despite grumblings from the Parish Church that has been linked with the school for years.

I cannot see why all religious education is not carried out in that way. I don't believe children should be kept ignorant of religion, I want my children to know why certain people with a particular faith do things the way they do, but I don't want it taught as fact.

LaLyra, we dream of the same thing. I can't see why it should be the way it is either.

LaLyra that is exactly why my child was withdrawn. I encourage the learning about all religions, but not having any of them presented as "this is truth"

if everyone who isn't actively a christian themselves withdrew their children there'd probably be a change in law and the "compulsory act of worship of a broadly christian character" would stop.

(unikely, I know, but I can dream..)

Does anyone know of a child that has been 'converted' to/started to follow a particular faith because of 'indoctrination' in assembly?

Most struggle to stay awake...

what's it for then?

this silly assembly crap is excused away by saying it is harmless. Well, it's also useless, and by law my child has to be in school, so they shouldn't be doing stuff that's merely not harmless. they should be taught things that are useful.

when will we stop giving religion (C of E, I am looking at you) a special seat at the school?

There were quite a number of pupils in my secondary school who were 'converted' to the Baptist church by a very active RE teacher at our school who was a member of the Baptist Church. I'm not judging their choice but it was a direct result of their contact with that teacher.

As a traditional Christian nation, we should have weekly Christian assemblies at school

Regularly-worshipping Christians are a minority and not representative of the general population of this country, suggest.

So no, it's not at all appropriate for schools with a wide variety of religions and none to be forced to listen to a weekly Chrstian assembly.