To think letting agents have no right to go through my bank statements?

[oversomeniagara]

We're trying to move flat and the letting agent has demanded three months' worth of bank statements on top of the usual credit checks, employer and landlord references.

I think this is really unnecessary and intrusive and I hate the idea of strangers combing through my accounts. I sent the bank statements with everything but salary, utilities bills and rent blocked out and now they are saying they have to see the full statements to check that we aren't 'living in an overdraft'. I am I right in thinking this is none of their business so long as the rent and bills are paid?

The flat is actually £500 pcm cheaper than our current house (we live in London...) so that combined with our excellent references and credit ratings should surely be enough! I am really outraged and disgusted by this whole process!!

Panton that's a disgusting rip off. Round here agents charge about £150 as a one off fee to the tenant no matter how many properties they apply for, and usually the same as a 'registration' fee to new landlords. (Low house prices here though)

I would argue that track record with previous rentals would be more of an indicator of being a good tenant than looking a bank statements.

I agree.

If you have two good salaries and are constantlc overdrawn then the letting agent is right to see that you are not mismanaging your money.

They are NOT right. It's plain nosey.

I too would vote with my feet. I wouldn't be too happy with a letting agent looking through every transaction when a reference from prior landlords and my employer should suffice. To all those judging people for their financial situations it must be nice to be so high and mighty. Both DP and I have well paying jobs but due to a period of illness and being let go of a previous job when I was unable to work (I now have a new job) I currently have credit card debt and and overdraft which I live in. I am slowly paying it off and cant wait until our year tenancy is up and we can move into a cheaper property but unfortunately may fail a credit check for a new one.

Reading this thread with some alarm as I will shortly be joining the rental market alone - to escape abusive marriage. This included financial abuse and although I have a good credit record and a stable job I do use my overdraft at the moment. If letting agents ask for bank statements as a regular thing I could have problems. How do you explain the concept of financial abuse to a letting agent?

Its hard enough finding a reasonably priced property that will take a pet and small child, without this aswell.

Ye gods! Look, it is fairly obvious that the reason the agents in this case asked for unsullied versions because OP had blanked parts out . That would raise all sorts if questions in anyone's head!

Blanking out your Lidl/ALdi shops may seem fun or right and proper to you, but it looks suspicious to the EA/LL. You cause yourself a problem.
Trying to make it a case of financial abuse, cause for using data protection as a shield are over reactions.

The EA and LL have every right to ask for your financial details. They have assets and their won livelihood's to protect.
The prospective tenant has every right to refuse and look or another EA/LL to rent from. If your right to privacy over rides common sense, then yes, you might find it hard to rent from a private LL. But that would be your problem. No one has to rent to you!

Nomama, I would absolutely blank out things they didn't need to see (well, I would strenuously avoid agents/landlords who asked for bank statements in the first place, but that's beside the point).

The only question it ought to raise is 'Oh, maybe I am being a bit intrusive here expecting to look at how much this person spent in Boots last Wednesday?'.

It is not a lack of common sense that makes people not want to show letting agents their bank details. And what a fucking rude thing to say, by the way. It's a lack of desire to have some stranger go through things that are none of their business.

Robust references, a good tenancy contract, insurance and securing a deposit are all standard, sensible and less intrusive ways of agents and landlords protecting their livelihoods.

Won livelihoods? My rental house was inherited by the LLs who are now selling it from under us. No sympathy.

To be fair, Gawjus, I think that might be a typo for 'own'.

Love your name BTW!

None of their business? Of course it is their business! As I said upthread, there could be direct debits to payday loan companies, or card payments to Bet Fred 10x a day, both of which could indicate imminent financial difficulty, even if your payment history has been impeccable up to now.

These people need to be sure that you can pay hundreds of pounds every month for the duration of your tenancy. It's not infallible but they need to do all they can now to prevent it costing them (the landlords) a lot of money in the future.

I can't believe that some (supposedly intelligent?) people on this thread just don't get this.

If you want to be that secretive about what you spend your money on, use cash. But otherwise there are times when other people will need to see you bank statement.
And you do realise that every single person who works at your bank can bring up your statement at any time and have a gawp if they were so inclined?

What do people have on their bank statements that they don't want anyone to see? Why would you care if a letting agent knew what you spent in Boots/Lidl?

The thing is, what if people ARE living in their overdraft? Should that stop them from renting anywhere full stop? What should they do in terms of finding somewhere to live?

I feel there's a slight attitude problem implicit in these words. It sounds like you think the world owes you something, in particular a place to live. In general, you don't have any rights, it's not anyone's responsibility but yours to make your accommodation happen. It's your job to persuade landlords that you're a better prospect than any alternatives. The people you want to do business with get to decide which customers they want.

If having an overdraft really made it impossible to find anywhere to live, people would stop using overdrafts. It's perfectly possible to go through life without one, even if you are living hand-to-mouth.

Thank you OnlyLovers! That is exactly my issue. I think some of the posters who have been quite rude/ sanctimonious/ patronising would agree with this article www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/landlords-demand-right-of-life-and-death-over-tenants-2015011494357 But perhaps I shouldn't include any jokes because you know, they might think I'm serious and will correct me saying 'of course landlords don't want to kill you, you stupid girl! Don't be so dramatic! ;)

How many times must I repeat myself? I LEFT IN SALARIES, UTILITIES AND RENT! E.g. the relevant things. The rest is none of their fucking business in combination with the other checks which we easily pass. And like I have said before, you can easily have £££s in the bank and still be a complete dick of a tenant by withholding rent and trashing the place. Better to check references more accurately. Demanding to see ALL my transactions is not only intrusive but also totally fucking pointless.

When does it stop? What if someone borrowed a large sum of money before applying for a tenancy, knowing it wouldn't show up on the three months' worth of statements? Does that mean that for a six month tenancy letting agents should demand a year's worth of bank statements? Two years?

Better reference checks are the answer. Actually paying for credit checks rather than trying to get out of them by demanding bank statements and still charging the tenant (this happened at my current property- got asked for bank statements, said why when you do a credit check and they admitted they didn't do a credit check because 'they take too long' so they ask for statements instead). They accepted the blanked out statements btw.

Btw, my DP has always lived in his overdraft, and it has never stopped us renting a property and wasn't an issue when we came to apply for a mortgage.

It's the prospect of slipping deeper into an overdraft, or displaying behaviour that could mean that sustaining the current lifestyle is not likely that is the problem in these cases.

Oversomeniagara have you read any of my posts?
They clearly explain why leaving only rent/utilities/salary is not appropriate.

Eminybob- sorry I actually crossed posted.

Fair enough, it could uncover potential problems but what about my example about how you can conceal stuff like that? It's seems a very fallible way to vet people.

It's the prospect of slipping deeper into an overdraft, or displaying behaviour that could mean that sustaining the current lifestyle is not likely that is the problem in these cases.

EA and landlords cannot see into the future and, as far as I know, are not generally experts at financial forecasting. ANYONE, no matter how much they have in the bank, could suddenly become penniless or could trash a flat and/or do a runner leaving the rent unpaid.

Conversely, ANYONE could be living on their overdraft and not on the surface have a very healthy bank balance but could still pay their rent on time in full every month, maintain the property well and generally be a landlord's dream.

And, Eminybob, I am intelligent, thanks very much, and I do get that landlords can potentially lose money if tenants behave badly in any way. Which is why I say that robust references, good contracts etc are necessary and useful. I explain that upthread just as clearly as you explain your opinion.

And yes, I do realise that in theory anyone who works at my bank could look at my statements any time, although thank you for the patronising tone. I tend to assume that bank workers have better things to do than gawp at random customers' statements, though; that is not comparable to the actions of an EA/LL insisting on bank statements so that they can comb through them.

What do people have on their bank statements that they don't want anyone to see? Why would you care if a letting agent knew what you spent in Boots/Lidl?

If you want to be that secretive about what you spend your money on...

I am not 'secretive' about what I spend my money on; in fact I said upthread I have nothing to hide, financially.

I don't 'care' in any meaningful sense about not letting an agent see what I spend. I do not buy anything that I'm ashamed of.

But I maintain that my bank statements are not the business of any EA or LL. It's not necessary if referencing and credit checks are robust. And, on a point of principle, it is a challenge to privacy.

It is wildly intrusive, years ago now I got horribly tied up in the most ridiculous tax credits claim someone had fraudulently made in my name.
It took ages to sort out and for a long time I kind of expected 'trouble' about it.
The only organisation/person etc that could connect my name with that address was a largish upmarketish London estate agent (with several offices) and the credit check people!!

No it's not an infallible process of course.

But I'm sure that estate agents are used to recognising certain behaviour on a bank statement that could potentially forecast financially difficulty, even if there haven't been any defaults to date. As I have been trained to do so in my job as a mortgage adviser. I will reiterate my examples of Bet Fred and pay day loans again.

Apologies if my tone has become patronising over the course of the thread, but that is borne mostly out of frustration that no one has acknowledged my argument (which although you may not deem it necessary, is the reason why bank statements are requested by letting agents)

I can understand for a mortgage but this is for a paltry 6 months contract, which we are paying 1.5 month's rent as a deposit and a month's rent in advance. Combined with our good references, good credit ratings (wouldn't pay day loans cause a lower score?) and salaries, it is over the top, intrusive and extremely fallible.

I think that it is really intrusive and unnecessary. I have more than one bank account so would just show them the most favourable statements and I'm sure anyone with an overdraft would do the same thing so it doesn't even tell them much. They are doing it because they can get away with it at the moment unfortunately. It is difficult for people to vote with their feet when there aren't enough properties available to rent.

Eminy, that's not true. Your argument has been acknowledged and some posters have agreed with you.

I'm sure that estate agents are used to recognising certain behaviour on a bank statement that could potentially forecast financially difficulty, even if there haven't been any defaults to date.

There are so many qualifiers in that sentence; you are unintentionally backing up the argument of the people who disagree with you!
'I'm sure'. On what grounds?
'could' 'potentially forecast ...difficulty'. Anyone could be viewed as being 'potentially' in financial difficulties.
'even if ...' Again, anyone who has no defaults could suddenly default out of the blue. And, again, anyone who looks less than squeaky-clean according to their bank statements could be model tenant and pay in full on time.

As for it being 'the reason why' some EAs demand bank statements is not the same as it being 'necessary', some EAs/LLs do not themselves 'deem it necessary', as we've seen on this thread. It's certainly not just me and the posters who hold similar opinions who don't deem demanding statements necessary. So please don't try to paint me and those who agree with me as being outliers going against what the vast majority think.

I'm out.

Don't try and pick holes in what I'm saying.

The fact remains that there is more on a bank statement to help a decision to let than just rent, salary and utilities. Which is and always has been my point.

Trying to twist my words isn't backing up your argument in the slightest.

We're tenants (4 times so far). My parents are LLs too. Some tenants are totally beyond the pale - like with 2 days to go suddenly not being able to afford a (reasonable, protected) deposit etc or knocking holes in walls or not paying their council tax. LLs rightly I'm afraid, get quite worried about their tenants. Having said that, in and of itself having an agreed overdraft shouldn't stop you renting. We have one. It's actually so that if one of our jobs didn't pay on time, we had a very large unexpected car bill etc we would still be able to pay our rent. I think blocking out sections would probably have made them feel you have something to hide. We just did, as pp suggested, printed a redacted one from online with opening and closing balances. They seemed satisfied. Fees and charges are a joke though! Should be banned from chargig for keys when they are clearly the same as previous tenants or for renewing a contract which isn't ever personalised. Our last one talked about a garden we didn't have for example.

I didn't have to 'twist' your words at all. And I wasn't 'picking holes', just addressing your points – and disagreeing with them.

I feel pretty confident in my argument, in fact, although I do realise that not everyone will agree.

My response to your last argument would be that the help that looking at bank statements gives is outweighed, IMO, by the intrusion it represents.

I think they should have the right to ask but you have the right to refuse. Because they do really have to make sure people can afford the rent otherwise they will make a massive loss. So if you object then go to another agent. But I can see why individually you are annoyed by this. I would be too but I suppose I'd think well they have to be careful.