LP on HB AIBU to want to be treated with a bit of respect?

[MoreThanAWoman]

Are we the scum of the earth? Starting to slowly but surely feel like this. Very disheartened and wondering if there is even any point in continuing to look.

Little bit of background - I am looking to relocate for personal reasons and hopefully start Uni. I have been looking and enquiring about properties for rent for a few weeks now. I keep getting resounding no's. It's like banging your head off a brick wall.

I have sent emails, texts or left answer phone messages for properties as soon as they have appeared on line. Generally the landlords have not even bothered replying to them or I've had a couple of one worded NO texts.

Spoke to an estate agent on Friday regarding a property all was going well she was very pleasant, giving details about the property asking when would be suitable for me to view etc. I said I was a housing benefit tenant immediate change in voice tone "oh, well your not suitable tenant, we will only deal with people in full time employment. There are other estate agents that will deal with you and consider you for the houses aren't as easy to get rented out" She told me there was no point in looking at any of their other properties and I was not the type of tenant their clients looked for.

I have found a few that say DSS welcome on the ads and the houses are awful, really awful.

So because I am a lone parent on housing benefit I have to live in a less than desirable area, in a house that is not fit for a dog to live in?

My current private rent is due to end and I have got to find somewhere to go, starting to panic.

I know some landlords due to their insurance cant' accept housing benefit tenants and that some have also had bad experiences in the past. I totally understand that.

I'm just asking please not judge everyone as being the same and that Miss Sooty Pants takes the stick out that's firmly stuck up her arse. Sorry bottom.

Oh I don't know cruikshank, they'd probably spend all their time skinning up and having meetings....terribly dull .

I have, in the past, squatted a bank on the corner of Oxford St and Park Lane, and a friend squatted a mansion in Park Lane itself. Oh, the naughty nineties....

No I didn't see this programme. Think I may find an empty house and squat in it. Surely these rich people wouldn't mind? Lol

Oh if it was about benefit claimants just saw cruiks post no i wouldn't have watched it anyway. Point blank refuse to watch programmes like that or teenage mums.

It is not a benefits bashing programme. It's a 3-part BBC series. I don't watch that shit, either.

The real issue behind it all is the housing bubble, buy to let/buy to leave/Help to Buy, all the propping up.

Lol @ benefits bashing programme.

The Super Rich and Us is definitely worth a watch.

Just thought it's worth mentioning that if you're receiving HB and need the councils help to move either through loans for deposits etc or social housing, you are specifically told not to leave. So most of those HB who refuse to leave when served notice, it's not because they are being difficult it's because they have nowhere else to go and if they do leave when advised not to by the council they will not be housed anywhere due to making themselves 'intentionally homeless'.

This happened to us, the LL asked us to leave and tbh we were desperate to leave (no heating for almost a year, wanted somewhere closer to school etc) but couldn't find another property who would take us & the owners were forced to take us to court so the council would help us. If we had left we were told we wouldn't be housed :(

Also to reiterate what was said up thread about payments being recovered from the LL, that can only happen if the LL receives the HB paid directly to them & not through the tenant. Even then the LL can apply for it to be recoverable from the tenant even if they were receiving it directly if they believe it's the tenants fault for the overpayment. Again, this happened to me, my ex LL didn't bother to tell the council we had left the property until a month later so they received an extra months HB which was then 'overpaid'. They were told they had to pay it back & then lied & told the council I hadn't given them any notice (which I did, and they had served notice on me by that point) so the council recovered it from me.

God jasper, that's awful!

I've always wondered if that went on when LLs were paid directly. I've always preferred to be paid directly myself- it's often the most vulnerable people whose payments get paid directly to the LL too,-ie those least capable of kicking up a fuss.

Not all councils force you to be legally evicted before they will house you- our LA just need you to be within 28 days of your eviction date. Which is much more humane, for both tenants and LLs. But then, we're rural, so maybe the council isn't under as much pressure as the inner city ones.

Yes it was very stressful stubborn :( Especially since the council knew we had moved, they were paying HB on the new place we moved to! I didn't get a penny of my deposit back either :(

Fortunately I now have a lovely LL but have been stung a few times by awful ones but don't have the option of not renting.

It's experience-based. By definition HB tenants are not good for the money if they leave owing rent or damage the property. Why would any LL not prefer non HB tenants who on average are a better risk?

Some Housing Associations are now acting as letting agents and may be more helpful, have you tried this route?

I'd be interested to see the research that found that HB tenants are more of a risk, statistically speaking. I wonder who commissioned it? I wonder how impartial it is? I wonder if it even exists?

jasper

The over payment of HB thing happened to me also even though not my fault. It was an absolute nightmare trying to get it all sorted out.

Andrewofgg

I find that statement very judgemental and offensive as I am sure many others will. By definition HB are not good for the money if they leave owing rent or damage the property Really? Is that your own personal experience? If so I am sorry for you, but please do not tar us all with the same brush.
I know there are HB tenants that have not been good tenants but I also know of working professionals who have not been good tenants either.
LL's have every right to let their property to whom they wish, who ever they think will be the best potential tenant, I have no issue with that. It was their rudeness I had an issue with.

miss I will have a look into this thank you. I've got a list going on here of places to phone thanks to all you lovely peeps x

If what I said is wrong it's an error which seems to be based on common sense. People with capital cushions are not likely to be on HB in the first place, are they?

I did not say, and I don't say, that they are more likely than others to trash the place or walk out on their obligations. Only that if they do they are less likely than others to be able to meet a judgment. Does that clarify it?

No. I don't feel that clarifies it. I don't understand your last post at all.

I think what andrew meant is that, if an employed tenant damages a property, then it is possible to regain the money through court, because they're likely to have sufficient income/ savings to be able to pay.

Except that many, many, many working people nowadays are living hand to mouth too, so that's no guarantee.

I wonder what would happen if somebody mounted a legal challenge to the insurance companies, to try to get them to cease discriminating against HB tenants?

Surely there is quite a strong precedent, if "Europe" (would this be the ECHR or another court? maybe andrew or another legal bod knows) has now banned motor insurers from discriminating in favour of female drivers?

Why is it acceptable to discriminate against poor people?

Who is these days sitting on a capital cushion?
Most of the people I know that are in full time employment actually have no money to spend they are juggling debts with credit cards, loans, mortgage payments, childcare expenses before they even think about the weekly shop. Very few of them actually outright own any of their possessions its all being paid up.

I understand what Andrew said but I don't think its a fair or accurate statement. Sorry if I am being a tad oversensitive I am menstrual lol eating choc as I type.

I wonder why people think we are on HB? maybe I will regret asking that question.

Unfortunately the poor are not a protected group, it's ok to discriminate on the grounds of poverty.

Also, someone reliant on benefits is reliant on government policy not changing. Few people suddenly have a wage drop if their employer decides not to pay them as much, as long as someone stays in their job, they will earn roughly the same.

stubbornstains It is unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of race, gender, all the usuals, but this is not one of them.

You might launch an indirect discrimination challenge if you could show that HB would-be tenants are more likely to be of one ethnic origin or gender - which is possible - but they would reply with the "proportionate response to genuine need" defence. The genuine need (of the LL) is to keep down bad debt, and the proportionate response would be based on what I said, and stand by, which is that other things being equal HB tenants are less likely to be good for the money if the need arises. Of course being in work is no guarantee but it's an indicator which points one way where being on HB is an indicator which points the other.

As for "discriminating against poor people" - well, I suppose you could say that every retailer who sells goods which some people cannot afford is doing that.

OP I certainly agree that LLs and EAs could be polite about saying No, but you yourself seem to agree that they can have a policy of doing so and if they have they might as well say so upfront.

Is there a solution? Yes there is, at least in part. It is for all HB to be paid directly - and efficiently - and for LA's not to insist on court proceedings - or carry on paying while waiting for the court.

(It was the European Court of Justice, not the ECHR, which decided that insurers cannot charge women less for motor and life insurance and more for annuities, and very absurd it is too. Young female drivers are being charged rates which reflect the bad record of young male drivers. Men who have paid more for their life insurance all their lives are being given unisex annuity rates although they have a worse expectation of life than women. Woman are being charged unisex rates for life insurance.)

Actually, I do have a capital cushion. I have some savings (less than the minimum amount needed to affect HB), and I'm claiming HB. This is due partly to a windfall this summer, partly to the fact that I have started to make tiny profits in my business (again, too tiny to affect HB), and partly to the fact that I'm extremely frugal.

So there (blows raspberry).

Ah, grateful for your knowledge andrew....like so many people I am lamentably ignorant of the workings of the EU .

Raspberry received!

But of course LLs and EAs have to go on general rules and experience and cannot be expected to enquire minutely into everyone's financial circumstances - and it would be highly intrusive if they did.

OP Enjoy the chocolate if there is not much else for you to enjoy at the moment. I certainly don' think you are scum. I know I sometimes come across as harsh, in RL I am soft as putty.