To think that nobody EVER changed their religious beliefs thanks to a door-step caller?

[CrystalHaze]

Just exactly that, really.

Following today's 'have you heard the good news?' doorstep visit, I've been wondering what the conversion rate actually is, and I cannot think of any way in which it could be a successful strategy for drawing people to your religion, unless they were particularly vulnerable.

So, what I'm wondering is: has anyone ever answered the door to a total stranger, listened to what they have to say on spiritual matters, and subsequently seen the light?

Sorry, I meant that I asked them not to knock because I didn't want them to drag delirious DH off his sweat-drenched bed, not that I cared about their health.

I breathed on them while explaining that.

I may have been Mary Typhoid Mary - the person who transmits the disease while suffering no ill effects.

Such a lot of tosh on this thread!

Of course JWs believe that Jesus was the Son of God.

It is the Trinity they do not believe in. They believe the 3 things are separate.

Jehovah is God.
Jesus is his son.
Holy Spirit is his active force.

Jesus was an Archangel

Re the cold caller signs.

We were instructed to ignore these as we weren't cold callers, we were there to share god's wonderful message about the "one true church"...

We were instructed to ignore these as we weren't cold callers, we were there to share god's wonderful message about the "one true church".

I imagine that a lot of prople to you to 'go and procreate' once you'd ignored their sign.

I don't think it is arrogant, they think they are offering you this wonderful thing. Obviously you and I don't as neither of us are JW or LDS. However it is possible they are right and so it would be a nice thing for them to do. With no hard evidence either way then they have to act on what they believe is right. I've found both sets of people very nice when I have very firmly but politely said that I'm not interested.

As for the LDS church I believe it is important to them not so much to convert new members (although that is important) I think it is more to make sure that they don't lose young people from their faith as they leave home and go to college -- a time when many do lose their faith. I think this even more now they have lowered the age range to 18 so the family can be more influential and more persuasive that a mission is expected or at least preferred. It is so ingrained in their culture (especially in the Southwest of the U.S) that many young people know that if they want 'the best kind of marriage' that is meant to last forever that the young men need to be returning missionaries to get the cute devout LDS young women and the young women know that the 'best kind of man' is one that served a mission. Marriage and family is such a huge thing in that church and if you are a young man who chooses to not do a mission the pool of suitable women is much smaller to you and you are considered less attractive by many. Also once you have devoted two extremely hard years of your life to the church at a young impressional age it is way less likely you will leave the church because at that point it would feel like you have completely wasted all your time and you and your family's money (missions are not cheap).

I have known young men who have gone on missions or are currently on missions. They have all been good people who want to help others and believe that this is their way to make a difference. They give up an awful lot to do it. For the two years they are away they only talk to their family twice a year, they live with very little money, no TV, music apart from in church, almost no books, walking or cycling miles a day in all weathers and for very long hours. They do it even when doors are slammed in their faces and people are awful to them. They don't do it because of arrogance, they do it because they believe their god wants them to do it as a way of serving others. I don't agree, but that is why they give up girlfriends, comfortable beds, family, college etc and spend all their money on it.

Even if you don't want to hear their message, remember these are often very young men and women away from home for the first time who would probably love a little kindness.

My do not knock door sign is from the Martin Lewis website. No cold callers, no religious,
groups or charities its cut down on the door knocking

My mum had a jw round a few times when I was small. She never converted but I think she enjoyed the spiritual chat and liked the woman.

The trinity is the central tenet of Christianity, though. JW believe in salvation through works. Christians believe in salvation through faith, in the sacrifice of Jesus, which no works can achieve.

Legend has it in my family that many years ago when I was young, our house was called upon by a young Jehovah's Witness woman whom my father, who was a Church of England lay reader, invited in and had lengthy discussions with her about the differences in Christianity and Jehovah's Witness take on things and she was on the brink of conversion and took away a copy of the New Testament. Almost doorstep conversion!

Our house was then targeted regularly by the leader man from our local Kingdom Hall (sorry don't know what his title would have been), so frequently that they even leant each other jazz CDs! I do remember them coming round quite a lot for debates as I answered the door to them a couple of times and had to explain mum and dad were out. They were pretty persistent and he was certainly not vulnerable

So Clawdy, those who think that they are getting one over on the JW's by dispensing knock down arguments are actually playing right into their hands!!
Any one who engages constitutes a point scored by the JW's?
If everyone refused to engage would they cease proselytizing? ?

'Go therefore and make disciples of the people....'

'This good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth....'

Go to jw.org and check out the work that is going on throughout the world.

Jesus said his people would be 'objects of hatred' and JWs know they are but their faith is what makes them strong. It was a command to Preach the Word. Do you think it is easy speaking to strangers? It really isn't.

?It may not be easy but if the reward is that your belief is reinforced then the payoff probably does make it easy.
so, the more people hate being preached at the more the JW's are convinced they are right?

As a racket it's watertight? :o

Here in London the JWs seem to have moved on to standing quietly by all the stations with their books and leaflets.

I'm happy with that. They're there and visible for people who are interested, they're not knocking on doors and they're much politer than chuggers.

I knew a few Mormons who used to go door stepping and for them the chance of "saving" a person through conversion, even if it was infinitesimally small, was worth all the hours of trekking in the rain and wind and snow.

I used to feel quite sorry for them because the brainwashing belief ran so deep that the young girl (who was dragged around from the age of 7) used to get quite anxious about the people they hadn't managed to save.

I don't know much about JW but the LDS definitely believe that spreading the word of Jesus and their other weird prophets is the ultimate aim of life. Well, that and producing as many new Mormon children as possible...

I was slowly reverse converted away from JW as a child by accompanying my parents as they did the door to door work.

Every time they got into a debate with a scientific type and/or atheist, I was always amazed and impressed by the arguments put forward, arguments my parents could not effectively counter in my eyes.

My family are all still JW, and although I am not, I cannot openly leave without being shunned (disfellowshipped). Someone always comes on to say they know someone who left and wasn't shunned, but this only happens if the person wasn't baptized. If you are baptized and you leave, you are shunned unless your own family breaks the rules (which are centralised), and risk being shunned themselves.
The practise of 'shunning' is really my only complaint against the religion, as it does tear families apart and/or force you to lead a secret life if you do not want to be shunned/disfellowshipped.

Having said that, just to clear up a couple misconceptions:

JWs do believe Jesus is the son of God, just not that he is God, or equal to God (aka not the Trinity).

JWs do not believe they are going to heaven, nor do they believe in hell. They believe they are going to die and be resurrected to perfect bodily health/youth/eternal life on Earth after Armageddon (essentially God's destruction of the modern world so that it can be rebuilt), unless Armageddon comes while they are alive, in which case they will never die at all.
They do believe that a very select few of 144,000 will go to heaven, but that almost all of these people have already been chosen and died, leaving hope of everlasting life on Earth for everyone else.

?
Interesting, I guess that's why some religions try to keep closed communities, their beliefs cannot withstand exposure to open-minded enquiry ?

then again Alreadyaghost, I wonder why you could see through it but other children dont?

Ugh, here's the thing. Almost no one in my family knows I don't believe it because I have to hide that I don't believe it. The only ones who do know are unbaptized unbelievers, and thus cannot be shunned themselves.

It will eventually come out, but I've been buying myself as much time as I can with my family because once I am shunned/disfellowshipped, they will never have any meaningful interaction with me ever again (not even supposed to say 'hello' to me). This has already happened to a couple of my extended family members.

So the sad truth is that there are probably many, many others just like me who do not believe at all, but who go along with the whole charade because they do not want to lose their family.

Sounds a bit 'emperors new clothes' to me
But also very conflicting and uncomfortable for you Alreadyaghost? :(

Feeling unable to leave is an obstacle that has halted me and stunted me for far too long, and I despise the part of me that is cowardly enough to cling to my family via a lie rather than to lose them and stand up and be counted for my truth.

The time is coming though, it really is a very painful emotional limbo to be in.

I don't think it's cowardly, being shunned by family is painful and traumatic...I presume thats why it's a successful method of keeping people in the faith ?.

Even so, you can't fool all of the people all of the time...?

Furthermore the pain of being in the conflicted position that you describe is probably what drives many to suppress their doubts and just toe the line?

Hmm, I am LDS, although I don't go to church any more. We certainly were NEVER told to look out those who would be easy to convert, that must be a JW thing.
Going around doors and having them slammed in your face, abuse screamed at you, assaulted ( yes it has happened to many people ) is all worth it to those who do it if they can reach one person who may have been looking for something, but was too scared to just turn up at church or was unable to leave their home/call to see if someone could chat. Every missionary/member I know was told if someone said no, we said thank you for their time and walk away.

Bunnie It's definitely a Mormon thing, I was taught to do this in the MTC.

I don't think anyone literally converts on the doorstep there and then but if you take a magazine or engage the JWs (or whoever) in conversation then they mark you down as potentially being interested. Then they'll come back later and ask what you thought of the magazine or if you have any questions and it goes from there. You get invited to a Bible study group, meetings, services etc. I had a friend who was a JW and she told me that they would go back to people who took the Watchtower or who seemed interested in debating things.

As other posters have said, if you're really not interested the best thing to do is politely say "no thank you" and they should make a note not to go back to you again. Again, this is what my JW friend told me. I was a churchgoer at the time and whenever she used to bring up the subject I'd just say I was happy with my church and then politely change the subject. I believe her mother was converted via the doorstep as I knew them before they were JWs. Her step-dad never converted though.