Making up time off if you're part time

[mindthegap79]

This is a hypothetical AIBU as I've never actually been off sick in years. I was a full time teacher and am going back to work after maternity leave in a few weeks. I'll be going back part time. I just wondered, what are the rules/what's the etiquette for making up days if you're off sick when you're part time? I've always been a workaholic but my priorities have changed since having a dc. If I were off sick or dc was poorly, would you expect me to make up the time if I worked for you? I sort of feel that morally I should, if I could get childcare, although legally I suppose I wouldn't have to. Also, what if something important happens at work on my day off? I'd probably try to get childcare and come in if I could, but do I have to? And what about bank holidays falling on my working day? Should I make the time up? Seems unfair on part time colleagues working different days if I don't!

Argh, sorry for the long post and all the questions. Thanks for any advice.

Thing being, as some people have said, but others are ignoring, teachers T&Cs are different. You don't have any 'annual leave' or days you can swap or take back if you are teaching a class.
If you are not there on Tuesday, say, and they have to get a supply teacher in, then you rock up on Friday - when someone else is already there teaching the class - it doesn't help.

I worked part-time as a teacher for 11 years.
When I was off, I was off. I never, ever had to make time up.
Luckily I am very rarely ill and neither were my DC (DH and I took turns to take time off)

Is there a reason why you think you might have to make time up?

Agree. I work part-time now in a job outside teaching and often swap my days around to accommodate meetings or to allow for childcare if my son is ill. However, the job is such that I can manage my own diary and just 'catch up' as and when. It just does not work like that in teaching - one of the reasons why I left!

I'm part time, and it works pretty well. I have three days that I'm in, but do do extras and am paid supply rate for them or very occasionally(twice in two years) swap my days. Once was for a childcare emergency and once when I had a wedding on a Friday. I attend all parents's evenings and inset of its relevant. If it falls on a day I don't teach I claim for it or get it off in lieu.

Don't make up time off sick, I don't come in for things on my non-working days either. I don't know how it will work in teaching but I get a partial allowance for the bank holidays and have to use some of my annual leave hours to make up the rest of the time I need to book for a bank holiday. So it's fair to all part timers whatever Days they work. Assume term time working may be worked out differently.

I work part time but dc are at school. If I can make time up (and I want to) I will but only really cos I think that one day I may need to take more than 1-2 days and would hope my employer would be fair in return. If you are teaching though I don't understand how it would work - all the classes would already have a teacher assigned to them.

Part-timers get a raw deal in teaching. Ive friends who work in other professions, including nurses, who do not get demoted when they go part time. I dont know many teachers who havent lost their TLR after going pt. in fact i only know 1.

You do not go in on your days off. They are not your contracted days to work. It doesn't matter if it is inset or parents evening. If you choose to go in for inset or parents evening, you get paid.

Thanks everyone for your responses. It was very interesting and helpful. I want to emphasise that I'm not envisaging being off, but just wondered how people generally felt about it. No one at work has made any comments or anything like that.

One poster made a good point about bugs coming home from nursery! DH isn't a teacher and is able to be a little more flexible, and in an emergency he could probably work from home, so hopefully we should be ok. No family locally to call on so it can be very hard.

Thanks all!

I have a colleague who recently returned from maternity leave. If she or her baby were sick, I would expect to cover for her. I would not expect her to make up the time. This is a very significant period in her life and I think it's particularly important that she not worry about what happens at work if she's unwell. I'm really struck by the absurdity of some people's attitudes to health and work... people get ill, people need time off, we're all human. No one is going to look back at their life and say, "I wish I'd put in more hours at the office/in the classroom/scrubbing the kitchen floor." Businesses and other organisations should take a more realistic approach to people's time off sick.

OP your employer will be rubbing their hands with glee if you say any of this stuff to them - and you will make life that bit harder for anyone who comes after you.

It is more tricky with things like bank holidays and what to do if your child is ill if you are on teaching terms and conditions because you don't have an annual leave entitlement to take or to add days too. From what I remember from maternity leave and when I went back part time, teachers legally have annual leave but it is considered to all be used up in the 13 weeks that schools are closed. But bank holidays shouldn't be an issue as schools are closed then so technically you can't go into work anyway.

I do 3 days over 4 in a non school based teaching job and am on teachers terms and conditions. If I get plenty of notice then I will try and do training days etc on my non working day but then I miss a different day that week. I have to admit I make sure I don't work miles over my actual agreed hours and I don't take phone calls or answer emails on the day I don't work unless it's something really urgent.

As Thymeout said! people fought hard to get part time workers the same rights as full time workers. I do think it's important to not start offering to do lots of things outside of what you are being paid for because people then expect it of you but also of other part time workers after you.

You will not be allowed to "make up " time off sick- if you are sick then that's that and sickness falls under managing employee attendance policy.

If you have negotiated a flexible working schedule then be very wary of coming in or swapping days off.
They should be reviewed annually and if you had chopped and changed days then your flexible working contract would probably be withdrawn .

Part time teachers usually get a shitty deal anyway, passed over for promotion, not kept in the loop about things/meetings that happen on days off, expected to do the same amount of 'extras' as a full timer, e.g. observations, performance management stuff.

Do not make it worse for yourself by being a mug and doing stuff that full timers aren't expected to do like make up sick days, or come in on days off. You aren't paid as much as them either, so don't feel any guilt.

And definitely don't do more than your fair share of INSET unless it's something you're particularly interested in.

It is very tricky. I'm already very anxious about going back and being away from my dc

I've negotiated being paid to attend a course on my non working day. I have to pay for childcare on my usual days whether we use it or not, so swapping days is already not appealing.

I am worried about people being envious of my part time hours and will keep reminding myself that I'll be on a fraction of their salary as a result.

I had a friend whose standard reply to anyone who seemed envious of her part-time hours, or expected her to do more extra work than full-timers, was: 'Yes, I work part-time and that is reflected in my salary.'

Going slightly off topic:

You take a day off sick if you are sick.

You don't take a day off sick if your dc is sick - you take annual leave or absence agreed with your boss.

Otherwise all the parents in my team would have their sick 'quota', plus 'sick days' off for their kids, plus annual leave!

That would be unworkable.

I am however pretty flexible and understanding, of course allow parents to rush off for ill children and let the odd day slide under the radar, they just can't do it routinely and it can't be an assumption.

Mindthegap if anyone is envious of you, remind them that they too can apply for flex working - it's not only open to new mothers. They will then say "oh no I need the salary".

Thymeout that is my standard response too. Some of my colleagues genuinely do not understand this rather important issue. Some of them think I work from home: also not true. Others have informed me that I am contractually obliged to check emails on my non-working days. Because they have detailed knowledge of that contract, clearly.

I love being part-time as I have kept my career going and have still had some time at home, but I have found that many ft workers just don't get it.

Fwiw I don't make up times I am off sick because I can't: I have a child at home still.

What Brandysnapper said. If anyone says anything, let them know they too can apply for a PT salary if they want to.
IME (I've worked 3 days a week for nearly 16 yrs now) nobody has every said anything nasty - the odd friendly 'I'm jealous' comment, but never come across any resentment in any of the schools I've taught in.

Oh, Backforgood, really interesting to hear you've been part-time for 16 years - I've done 3 days before but temporarily, I'd like to do it again but it would be permanent - so it's nice to see someone who's done it successfully longer-term.
(Waffly post, hope you know what I meant!)

What Thyme said, 'Please don't be soft-hearted on this issue. Others have fought long and hard for decent conditions for part-time workers.'
In my first year teaching the HoD scheduled department meetings on one of the staff's day off. I was a bit on her behalf, but wish I'd been more vocal.

In different schools, and under different HTs, and including promotion / Management Allowances (as were) and TLRs (as they became).
I know lots of friends and colleagues who work PT, very happily well, as happy as any teacher is in this climate.
I think it's a lot easier in Primary than secondary, becuse of the timetabling of lessons - in Primary you tend to be able to to set days, whereas my friend who does PT in secondary has always had bits of a day on several days, which is hopeless IMO - for her - although you can see it helps the Dept give consistency to the pupils.

No don't make it up because it then undermines the rights of other part-timers

I am a 0.6 teacher - I work 3 full days a week. I stay for departmental meetings on one day as that's the day it's on. I have had one day off since September with a sick child and did not make the time up nor was expected to. Parents evenings are an issue for me as they are on a day I do not work. After discussion with my Hod we came to the conclusion that: where it was pressing for me to attend (y11 etc), I did not share the class and I was able to (childcare), I would make the effort to come in. Where it was possible to phone home instead, or have my partner teacher do the appointments with their agreement, or split it in some way, I do not have to attend. In practice I will probably go to the majority but it's good to have it clarified and my HoD knows when I do come I have put myself out for the good of my students.

I do not have to attend INSET on my no working days although I can choose to.

They get a good bargain from employing me! For example all sixth form classes have two teachers as standard. It recently occurred to me that I still have 50% of sixth form classes and therefore do 50% of assessments and so on - which is the same as a full time teacher! So that's a good,deal they get there. Obviously I don't nitpick about it as you do whatever is needed but remember I only get 60% of a salary so it is fair to only do 60% of the work.

"I am worried about people being envious of my part time hours and will keep reminding myself that I'll be on a fraction of their salary as a result."

It's them you need to be reminding. Whenever anyone's sighed and said to me, "Oh you are lucky to "only" work x days, I smile sweetly and say, "hm, not so nice when the reduced salary cheque arrives though."

And re: making up time off, do full-timers have to make up time? No, therefore neither do you.