To be upset that ds has been downgraded in his ability groups?

[Whowillsaveyoursoul]

He's 5 and in year one.
He was in the upper middle literacy group and he's now in the lower middle and he was in the top numeracy group but now he's in the middle.
Moved from both at the same time. I'm surprised re numeracy since he's pretty quick with numbers / shapes etc but I think the fact his fine motor is hopeless might be stopping him from recording things and setting things out very well. For instance he would write 25 - 2 as 52 - 5 in all likelihood. And it would not be neat.

I'm less surprised re literacy because his handwriting is not good either and there are some really able children in his class.

But Aibu to feel a little sad that instead of improving he's slipping down the class?

Many children in Europe do not start school until they are 6 or 7yrs old. All children progress differently. No need to be concerned. I remember one of our sons was moved down a Maths group when he was about 10 yrs. This was the best thing that could have happened. The new teacher was so much better at explaining things & he flourished. Eventually ended up with Maths A*. Please don't worry.

Definitely don't worry. My writing was appalling pretty much all the way through school (and not much has changed) It certainly didn't hinder me indeed I am in a job where dodgy handwriting is a bit of a cliche.

I would have been bottom of the bottom group for that but strangely as you get older different things matter more. As an earlier poster said it is not always predictable who does well and at 5 it's far too young to be worried.

This is why I HATE HATE HATE ability groupings. They are unnecessary and (according to most studies) not effective at improving learning. It's great for the kids (and parents) in the top set, mostly, though many will feel under pressure to stay at the top. Its completely shit for the ones below this - middle groups are often huge, with kids who need some supporting but get very little time from the teacher because there are so many others. Bottom groups are smaller but imagine being the kids who has been in the bottom set from the age of five! Why the fuck would you even bother trying?

I fight tooth and nail for mixed ability teaching in my school, often in the face of a lot of criticism and skepticism from other staff and parents, but hardly ever from kids. I teach secondary school (English) and have happily taught gcse groups with a range of target grades from A to E. My top end hit their As, and my bottom end were pulled up to Ds.

I agree it is depressing.
I used to mix mine up as much as possible but I knew who was where obviously.
I did have them in ability groups for numeracy and reading but never for topic and only sometimes for literacy. Ds's class is grouped for everything. His home group is his literacy group and he also does topic with them.

YABU. He's 5 plenty of time tow work out his strengths

I know it's hard seeing your DC get put backwards but things will change. I felt like that as My DD was the youngest in her year and was in the lowest ability groups of everything, she still struggles with Science and Maths and in the bottom sets for those but she's just past her english exam with flying colours and in one the top sets. (year 10 now)

You need to accept, that your child might not in the top ability groups.

I agree with you Lazymummy but I imagine at 5 they are not segregated groups as such, just that red table gets A sheet, blue table gets B sheet etc. which is exactly the same as would happen in a mixed ability class, except that those doing the same sheet sit at the same table. If you're one teacher working with 30 kids it makes sense to sit everyone with the same sheet at the same table do that you can help them all at the same time.

Fwiw once they get to juniors I agree that mixed ability is much better that formal setting.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. I remember when dd got moved from the middle to the bottom group for maths we were a bit at the time. However, in practice it meant moving to a smaller group where she got more attention, but more importantly the middle group teacher was a bit crap whilst the bottom group teacher was brilliant - she just seemed to have a knack for getting mathematical concepts into the heads of near-innumerate pupils. Dd rapidly started doing better to the extent that the school wanted to move her back up: we ended up begging them not to.

If your son was in a different year group or different school the cohort of children would be different. You need to consider the progress he is making compared to where he started not compared to his peers. Groupings are fluid and depend upon many factors not just recording in books.

YANBU to feel sad. It's hard not to get invested in these things.
My key questions to you would be:
A) do you feel the moving down is unreasonable in terms of his cognitive ability and do you feel issues with his fine motor skills (which you have mentioned) are clouding his teachers views of his actual abilities in these areas?
B) knowing what you do of the school and your child, do you believe the moves in group will delay his progress in learning?

If yes to either or both, I would advise you book a meeting with his teacher to discuss,
Best wishes to you both.

Hi happy thought my son was moved from top to bottom after four weeks in reception n stayed in middle in yr1/2 but he's a bright boy we did lots at home - fun learning stuff never taking things too seriously but encouraging he was in top group again by yr3

Just had year 9 parents evening n he's predicted from 7a-8a in all his subjects including PE (that his ks2 level indicated would be a 4b end of yr9) so A/A* at Gcse

I'll never regret him being moved down in KS1 i was sad at the time but so glad it happened as it taught him the importance of working hard, focusing in class, completing homework, applying learning and different skills. It was the making of him as a student.

Im a secondary/a level teacher n I see too many students with natural intelligence who have never had to work or push themselves that bit further so never achieve their real potential

Make this your sons first step on the road to real success

I disagree that ability is fixed from the beginning.

Dd3 (5) is a child who complete strangers remark about within minutes of meeting her. How bright she is, she's a smart one, wow-she's clever, isn't she?

She has just moved (finally!!) from dark pink book band to light pink book band and, unless a minor miracle occurs, will fail her y1 phonics test in the summer. She isn't ready yet. She still reads words both left to right and right to left. Still sees b and d interchangeably.

She is progressing well with writing, though, and can spell and write words she can't read

I am certain that once it clicks she will fly. She just hasn't found her wings yet

I think you should be careful about labelling him as 'average or below average' ability on the basis of this move. Even to yourself and especially not to him. At age 5 it's far too early to know or be making those kind of judgements.

You mention his sight problems and needing good lighting. Does the school know what he needs and have they made reasonable adjustments for him?

His thread is depressing

This thread is depressing, even

if he's only average ability or below there's not much I CAN do is there??

I suggest you stop thinking in terms of "ability", and start thinking in terms of current developmental level or similar. Your job is to inspire your son to be interested in the world, in stories, in being creative, in how numbers work and what we can use them for. Show him that by working hard on a task he can learn to be really good at it, that natural ability is only a small part of where we can get to in life. But most of all, just encourage him to enjoy school and to try his best - you really shouldn't be worrying about which group he is in right now.

How do you even know this? I haven't got a bloody clue what 'ability' set or table Dd is in nor could I give a shit. I ask her if she had a good day and what she did/who she played with....
He's 5, in psychological terms his developmental needs are social and emotional. Cognitve development is unequal at this age adn just not a priority. This is why sensible countries focus on formal education at 7....

if he's only average ability or below there's not much I CAN do is there??

You can celebrate the ability that he does have, you should be proud and can help him to feel good about his achievements no matter if he is first, 10th or last in the class to learn something.

I had no idea what group my DS was in when he was in year 1. And no, not all children prattle on about that sort of thing.

And there's a huge difference between year 1 and year 3. Enormous. I'm surprised you don't know that if you used to teach those age groups OP. If you're worried about his fine motor skills, what are you and the school doing to help improve them? Do they do the Fizzy programme or similar? What exercises do you do? If you're a teacher for that age group, you must surely be able to develop ways to improve them. Daily practice makes a huge difference IME.

You sound like you've given up on him already. And he's only 5 :(

Sorry, did you say you're a teacher?

Because you seem to have forgotten that he's a five year old in year one.

Very worried that ability grouping is so widespread in reception. Please teachers read the research on this! It can be so damaging. The winners are the top set but at the great expense of the rest.

I dident know they stream so young now.

It's varying the work in a class. The majority will do worksheet 'B', a few worksheet 'A', some worksheet 'C'. Occaisionally extra sheets ("up" or "down" might be used for particular children).
Within that children will also be encouraged to challenge themselves occaisionally (at least that's how it is at DD's school).
Often there'll be something on the wall at DD's school showing which sheet for which child (so you can keep an eye it's about the right level). That list gets updated regularly. They're based on all the 1a,1b,1c etc targets (old curriculum). But also relative improvements.
Children are not steady even learners (as targets would suggest). They do make sudden leaps, then coast along happy with things. Still learning. Quite happy. But they don't synchronise on a termly basis.

From my outsider's perspective, I find the "ability group" thing in British classrooms bizarre.

Very few countries teach young children like this.

There is a real danger that kids are going to get pigeon holed, with kids who are a little weaker at the start (because they come from a deprived home or are young for their year, say) falling further and further behind the rest.

And calling the "ability groups" is APPALLING. It is totally symbolic of the "fixed mindset" about children's learning. The focus should be, rather, "Some of these kids are weaker than the rest right now--how can we intervene intensively to push them up to the level of the stronger students?"