to have found the documentary tonight 'British, White and Proud' really frightening?

[LuluJakey1]

Perhaps I am not very worldly living up here in Northumberland. I found it really scarey and unlike anything I ever see up here.

Our day to day world up here is, I would say, 98% white British and working/middle class. I never see racism and rarely experience intolerant attitudes being expressed. I was really shocked by the streets of Rotherham and the old ladies cheering and clapping the white nationalist groups. I found all of the groups- the Moslem men and the police and the white nationalists, aggressive and over-reactive. It made me wonder where we are heading.

I reckon, op, you probably don't see it because your area is 98 percent white British.

Were you to live in an area that is an intersectional crux (I know that sounds really wanky, but I can't think of another way of putting it) between different ethnic/religious/cultural groups, where there is a lot of tension for various cultural, economic and political reasons, you would maybe experience a lot more of those types of attitudes in your day-to-day life.

I live in a region where there are a lot of dark undercurrents, and a lot of unreported incidents, and these incidents do not necessarily occur between white English and "other" (I live in a region where a young Kurdish lad was left with brain damage after a planned street attack for political reasons, and it wasn't a white neo-nazi that delivered the blow, let me tell you). It troubles me, if truth be told, because some towns in my region are somewhat of a tinder box.

I actually think it says something about the English that things have remained so relatively calm. In my DH's home-country an extremely multi-cultural, multi-religious society some of the things that have happened in the last ten years would have provoked civil war.

I've known members of the NF and they are just looking to be accepted, somewhere

Agreed. Interestingly the PREVENT* programme uses a clip from This Is England to show how people are radicalised. Its the scene where Combo first engages with Shaun and draws him into the racist culture.

• www.gov.uk/government/policies/protecting-the-uk-against-terrorism/supporting-pages/prevent

It's not a repeat AFAIK a; they specifically mentioned it was 2014 at one point. But yeah, it felt very familiar as a documentary.

Indeed fail. All the EDL, BNP, football hooliganism etc. docs. seem to have merged in my mind.

I'm watching it now.

I hadn't thought that a reason for marching would be the excitement - 'demo fever'.

Spreading hate for a rush. Grim.

I'm sure I saw a quote in the last couple of days saying that the far right in the uk is weaker now than at any point in the last 30 years. Can't remember who said it though and I suspect it is because UKIP are idiotic, sexist and racist not far right but are pulling in those who were.

As Worksall hours says, I also live in an area (inner London) where there is very high level of multiculturalism, so I'm aware of the reality rather than what is portrayed on TV.

Firstly, the majority manage to live side by side happily without ever having an issue, but yes there are fringe groups for every set of beliefs which for a dark undercurrent. We have had leafleting from Islamic groups, Far Right groups, Jehovahs Witnesses and others.

I found the programme you're talking about depressing but not scary. I recently watched a documentary on 'non-violent islamic extremism' and that was the same sort of thing from the other side.

What I saw tonight was a group of 30-50 men, all mainly related to white-flight type communities, not London as it is now, who apparently represented this supposed movement as a whole.

Realistically I could probably find 50 people to talk to me passionately about any issue. I don't think its as dramatic as the programme makers are saying.

Also presumably as there is no immigration in your area, people don't have to decide whether they feel encroached upon or not or whether they're going to be particularly tolerant of people or not.

The men in that group probably had the collective IQ of a gnat.

Some of the crap they were trotting out was just laughable.

Interesting that at the end that Colin bloke was pulling away from the groups & demos.

I think a huge part is seeking acceptance and being part of something.
Obviously their viewpoints are completely unacceptable

Another thing I wanted to add is that the way I interpret a lot of what I saw tonight is as 'countering behaviour'. For example, if I go to my local high street I will find group preaching Anjem Choudary style beliefs. There is also a pub near me which was known for EDL type anti-islamic associations. Otherwise, I could go to my local Jewish community centre and see my old rabbi, who will no doubt be stirring people up regarding anti-semitism and the next holocaust- 'Don't trust the gentiles" sort of thing.

I see it as they sort of balance each other out, it's been like this for years around here. The rest of us are just getting on with life happily whiles the hate groups rage to little or no audience.

This recent obsession with ethnicity drives me to dispair. The UK used to be obsessed with class. Now it is obsessed with nationality. That disease started in Scotland and now it has spread south.

Started in Scotland? Some evidence, please, and not some crap that associates SNP with Nazis.

It's pretty quiet IMO. I remember the NF marches of the 70s and the open goodwill from the police escorts. THAT was scary.
Where I live, there's a sad bastard covered in SS runes who gives out leaflets, a pub with a dodgy back bar and a kebab shop that collects for the peshmerga. There were a few arseholes 10 years ago, but the Poles sorted them out.

Totally shocking. My ds aged 24 thought it was hilarious and they were just stupid thikkos but I found it scary.

A couple of years ago the English Defence League thugs marched through Wrexham in North Wales. They had no support from any Wrexham people and an elderly Welsh woman was heard telling to go back to England.

It was very amusing.

To all those who think this is a new phenomenon, it's not. There's nothing new under the sun. From the 1930s and the British Union of Fascists, through to the British Movement, the National Front and the BNP, modern Britain has always had a clique of angry, disaffected people, usually young men, who are drawn to dressing up as fascists (oh, and Prince Harry and Ed Balls).

As Hope Not Hate reported this week, the far right is more fragmented and has less support than at any time in the last few decades, in spite of recent years' disproportionate levels of immigration. These documentaries come out every few years or so, and invariably show the same sorts of people doing the same sorts of things. 'Twas ever thus.

If it's any consolation, look at Europe and see how significant far right groups are over there. Or the US or Australia, for that matter. If UKIP have done one good thing, it is attract the support of people who might otherwise have been drawn to the BNP. You may not like their policies, but at least they're committed to act democratically and within the law and, to some extent, minimise the tendencies of some of their more fringe supporters.

What frightens me are tit for tat attacks on both young Asian and young white males by thugs of either side.

You may depend the lad attacked will he an innocent in the wrong place wrong time.

My ds was at uni in Stoke and the tensions between the communities was scary.

Glad he's left.

I live in the Midlands. I have in my career dealt with housing complaints. Racism here is scary in it's complexities and extent. I have to remind myself there are individuals within the various communities who get along. But overall there is an alarming level of division.

I live in a village but our local town is very multi-cultural. We had lots of NF marches in the 70's ( My brother and his mate both got beaten up by the skin-headed fuckwits )

My feeling is that there is actually less overt racism about now than there was then, but what there is has hardened. Most people still just want to potter on with their lives and get on with everyone but there's a minority in every culture who need someone to blame for everything and they tend to gravitate to groups who validate their viewpoint.

I don't think it's a new thing, though, hate and fear of different races/religions is as old as time.

Bloody depressing thought, that ...

To the PP who mentioned stamping out football hooliganism - we actually haven't. This is a different way of going about it.

I'm good friends with some coppers in the public protection unit at West Midlands Police and there are laws now about football hooligans. They can have their passports revoked when there is an international game on. For example in Wolverhampton there is an injunction banning any known offender travelling within the ring road (where Molineux is situated) during home games if they do they are arrested. This means they can go nowhere near the ground and more importantly none of the pubs etc.

However stuff like this and the EDL supposedly counts as "political" and free speech and these idiots can't be banned as they quote "we have a right to free speech" and it all kicks off then instead.

Yes agree with that used it's less casual racism but when it's there it's far harder and more serious than in the 70s. All sides so polarised.

Extremism and mob behaviour is always scary. It's interesting how people jumble up ethnicity and Nationality. People can have different ethnicities. Take Margaret Thatcher. You'd think she was all English or maybe British. One of Maggie Thatcher's great grannies wasn't from Britain. She was Irish. I remember reading that she had other Irish forebears, futher back, from her other ancestors. Who knows what other ethnicities she came from as that is just one outside British. I also remember that her daughter took part in a dna programme and they found middle eastern dna. Well, the Romans were in Britain and brought many people from their empire in the middle east into their army. The tick box for White British includes NI, where nearly half the population is of Irish ethnicity.

This is the link about Carol Thatcher.

www.margaretthatcher.org/document/110880

This is a quote from the link. It is succinct. 'Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University and author of Blood of the Isles, about Britain’s genetic history, said: “This racial profiling is based on the premise that there was once a people who were 100% pure. All of us are temporary mixtures of DNA from all over the place.”'

Even ethnicity can try to pigeon hole people incorrectly. Humans have had varied journeys but the same origin.

I like how Hollande's address was to the Citizens.

Daft to blame Scotland. People from other countries are well able to engage in this sort of behaviour too.

That is funny, paxtecum.

That programme was scheduled before the Paris attacks - which turned out to be 'lucky' timing for the programme makers.

You've always had these groups and, like a poster said above, they tend to self implode pretty quickly. a couple of years ago it was all about the BNP. Now - 4 months before an election - you never hear a thing about the BNP since Nick Griffin was booted out.

the right wing extremist nutters are no more a part of my life than the muslim extremist nutters

Luckily, the disparate far right groups (the EDL, BNP, etc) tend to fragment quite easily as they generally can't stand each other. They are forever splitting and forming new sub groups, much like the far left has historically done.

That was indeed the point of this documentary. One tiny splinter group was called the South London Infidels, and they met at someone's mum's house in Kent. It would be funny if it wasn't tragic. It just looked like a bunch of stupid white blokes having a barbecue, some beers and spouting hatred.

Interesting how there's such a crossover from old school football hooliganism to far right groups. What is it about the white working class male psyche that gets drawn to this?

seaoflove - it's probably the very same thing that draws young muslim males to extremism: peer pressure, feeling isolated, wanting to belong to something.

I found the underlying hatred on both sides deeply disturbing. They were all so determined that their opinion was right. The right wing guys were particularly stupid and inarticulate. I've seen racism when I was at school in South London in the 70s. My best friend was mixed race and she really suffered at the hands of racists and the teachers turned a blind eye. I know op how it can leave you feeling shocked but there was at least one redeeming feature when the sweary guy had an Ah ha moment.

I know it was awful but we did laugh out loud at the three of them going to 'negotiate' with the Muslim brotherhood who amazingly enough were out!