To not want to pay child maintenance?

[WearingaHardHat]

Ok, donning a hard hat for this, as I know it can be an emotive topic.

XP and I split a couple of years ago. Since then I've been paying child maintenance, at a rate in excess of the CSA calculated amount. I've never argued about or questioned paying it, always paid on time, never been difficult about the amount to be paid.

The children spend their time 50/50 between me & XP, and when they're with me everything is my responsibility (school pickup / taking a day off if they're sick etc). Not saying that to get a gold star; just to clarify that it's a "true" 50/50 split.

Here's the thing: Whenever they come to me, they're always dressed innapropriately; thin coat in winter, DD (who's 5 & has coordination difficulties) wearing big clumpy boots that she can barely walk in without tripping over etc. So much so, that they no longer bring clothes with them when they come here, and they just have a full wardrobe at mine instead. I'm still paying for them to eat; for their school uniforms & shoes; they've got their own rooms here. I take them shopping to buy presents for birthday parties that they go to, I pay for the after school clubs that they do when they're with me. (Am trying to think of other examples, but you get the jist - there's nothing that's XP's "responsibility" to pay for.)

As a result, I feel like I'm effectively paying twice; once for child maintenance, and again for the things that child maintenance should be paying for.

So, is it unreasonable of me to wonder why it is that I'm still required to pay child maintenance, and to think that if I could stop, I'd be able to spend more on buying the children the things that they actually need.

Points to note (in an attempt to avoid a flaming):

1. I wouldn't actually stop paying unless there was a formal agreement in place to that effect.
2. This isn't a "what about the poor menz" thread. I appreciate that many men fail to contribute sufficiently (DSS's dad for one; even a christmas card might have been nice - but that's a separate thread).

(Namechanging regular, as this + previous posts would out me)

Why not ask your X to give you £y to pay for the thing they really wanted to do?

God this sounds so difficult, what a hard situation to be in.

Is there a way you can make the 50/50 arrangement official and then go from there wrt to reducing or stopping CM?

My DB is in your situation OP. he has them almost 50% of the time, but the court order states he has to pay all the child maintenance to her... He then pays on top for things like music and sports that she should be covering. She is a hopeless financially irresponsible waste of space, but he enabled her throughout marriage, and is still scared of confrontation now. He is worried it will negatively impact on the children.

I think my brother should rigidly stick to the Order, and at the moment I am getting slightly frustrated with him.

As for you OP, I think you need to sit down with ex, and discuss this issue. She needs to step up her game from what you say. Run through your understanding of CM and what it covers....if in practice you are paying twice, say that this needs to change or you will need to think about revising the order.

NB? Am not a divorce lawyer and have no direct experience.

Tension Only making the point that XP didn't give up a career for children; yes, I worked while she stayed at home, that worked for us at the time, and was a joint decision.

John I'm reluctant to go to court over it, because I don't want the kids to end up in the middle of an argument. I acknowledge that that means I'm enabling her, but up til now I've seen that as being preferable (the least worst option).

I've tried discussing with her (partic re: clothes), but she doesn't see the issue - the clothes they wear are "fine", apparently. As I say, it's not neglect, but thoughtless.

Are you my brother??

No one wants to go to court, but using that as an unpalatable eventuality should she not send sensible stuff (and you may need a conversation about what that is...you are jointly parenting them) may be an argument worth making.

What does school / others say about the clothes? Are you sure you are right and she is wrong?

Hypothetically, if you paid no maintenance, would rent still be easily paid in your DC's other household? Would bills all be met easily? Or would that removal throw your ex's household into financial difficulty? Is there an abundance of work out there for her, as a self employed person, that she can quickly take up to fill that drop? Would that increased work impact her ability to be around for the DC when with her? If she then has to work much longer hours as a result, could she afford the childcare needed?

I think you earn more. I think she probably seems quite well off to you given your contribution, her earned income & possible supplemented benefits. Problem is, when you remove that CM, that's when you'll see the reality of how your joint decisions re her not working after DC actually affect her, now & in the future. If you see that as her problem, nothing to do with you, then I can see why you feel aggrieved. I don't think you really get why CM tends to be needed in your ex's position, and you don't seem to get that you contributed to that reality for her. Ultimately it's about how all this affects your DC. If you think removing CM to be able to afford the things they want/ask for when with you, and that would have little/no impact on your ex's ability to meet your DC basic needs, then that's your choice to make.

If you supported XP and you were married isn't what you consider CM in effect spousal maintenance. If she didn't/doesn't work and you supported her in that how do you expect her to provide a roof over their head which is a similar standard to what you can give them. I'm assuming form teh tone of your email that you would prefer them to give in a decent home 100% of the time not 50%.

I think a formal agreement over residence and payments might be the only way to go. And if you are genuinely paying too much to gradually reduce it to give your childrens mother time to find another source of income to replace it.

It seems that the non resident parent always has to pay child maintenance even if you have them 175 per year or more.

Your ExW's choice of clothing and footwear for the children is exactly that no matter how much it annoys you. Was she always the same?

CM should pay for clothing, uniform etc and you should pay for after school clubs on your days.

Use the CSM calculator and work out what you need to pay then use the informal agreement route. You could also agree to refund half of the unform and suitable footwear costs when she produces the receipts. Don't be frightened of a more formal agreement if needed.

I think you need to seek legal advice. It seems unlikely your ex will just accept you paying less money with no repercussions. I appreciate you don't want to cause issues with your children but I don't really see any other option.