To ask what the problem is (The terrorists)

[lemisscared]

Because i just don't know. Have they got a genuine gripe? Why the hatred? What do they want to achieve? Honestly, shouldn't people be sitting round a table and making concessions on BOTH sides?

I am terrified which is probably daft but in Syria and other countries that im embarrased to say i don't know, people are being massacred daily and the West bats not an eye. They live with terror every day - how can we make it stop?? Not just here, but everywhere?

If there is a God, whoever's God you are, now would be a good time to intervene because i can't help but feel that the whole world is turning on itself.

Can somone please explain this to me, possibly from the point of view of the Islamists behind these attacks, because they must feel justified in their actions, i don't believe that the route of the problem is evil.

I'm just scared

grandtheft thanks for that answer. It is very sad :( like others have said there seem to be many issues.

There is a widely held view that Saddam was left in power after the first Gulf War by the USA because there was no alternative "leader", that however bad he was and his methods, he offered a certain level of stability in what had been a relatively progressive state in comparison to its neighbours.

Since time immemorial when former colonial powers have interferred with state boundaries, tried to influence political leaders or invaded and forced their own cultures on another, the result has been for the most part eventual anarchy.

Western double standards - Saudi is our friend - er why particularly? Other than the fact it is much, much richer I don't particularly see how it is particularly different to pre 9/11 Afghanistan in terms of human rights/rule of law/democratic legislature/corruption etc. Oh yes, they buy arms from us and we need to buy our oil from somewhere, and the Afghan people don't own half of London. Don't get me wrong, the Saudis are perfectly welcome to buy property here but in no way does that make me think that I'd like to go and live there or even visit.

It feels like less than 2 yrs ago, we (the UK) were supporting the end of the regime in Syria (for good reason) but somewhere along the way, the Syrians whom we tried to support have been overrun by a group of more radicalised individuals whose allegiance is to a radical version of Islam rather than a nation state and it's betterment.

It's not possible to sit around a table with a group of people who want to create a new empire, a "caliph" encompassing most of the middle east (democratic and fundamentalist) states regardless.

Whether through war, economic conditions and/or our support or interfering we are regarded as a threat and a responsible party for the current situation. I wish someone had any idea how to help to improve matters without making them worse.

I agree that there are deep rooted societal problems that we can no longer ignore. And we need to look at our foreign policy decisions and the resonance.

GrandTheftQuarto thanks, I get it now. Wasn't sure how you had meant it.

If we get rid of all religion, or take away its powers (special laws and accepting it) then we won't have a problem.

Rubbish. There are always evil people, and evil people always have some kind of ideology to hide behind. Look at the terrible things capitalism has done - Bhopal for example.

Evil people do evil things and will use any excuse that suits their purposes.

DISCLAIMER

I know fuck all, me

but if I were them, desecration of Islamic holy sites by the west in Saudi Arabia, indiscriminate bombings of Muslim countries, illegal wars, deaths of 000000s of civilians, western armies standing by while 0000s of Bosnian Muslim men butchered in Screbin x Schreb x Schrebern...oh you know, drone attacks on schools, mosques, hospitals, care homes, Gaza/bits of the Lebanon reduced to rubble on a regular basis with the full support of the West, historical imperial shit boundary drawings up etc etc might just make me a bit testy

specially coupled with widespread-and acceptable- ridicule of my belief system by peeps who profess 'atheism'

NOT SAYING THAT MURDERING PEOPLE IS NOT WRONG

IT IS WRONG

WHOEVER IS DOING THE MURDERING

We have never been as strictly monitored before. There are unprecedented anti terror laws being passed all the time. Yet this had got us nowhere. Instead we seem to be in a phase of escalating terrorism.

Op your opening point about those killed in Syria/gaza not getting any media attention is also interesting. Why won't the world mourn the many muslim and non muslims killed in gaza in the last 20 years? Why is the world not trying to free the 3 journalists egypt has imprisoned? Is the protection of Free speech, the tears and collective mourning only available for those killed in the West?

I've been really thinking about all these issues this week. There's no point wedding or these shooters, there's many more waiting in the sidelines.

Sorry Back, I wasn't very clear, was I?

True Grandtheftauto.

Sorry that should say the Muslim and non muslim journalists killed in places like gaza for expressing their opinions.

Basically they want everyone to submit to their religion and if they don't then they are dead meat.

There is no god. They face oblivion just like the rest of us.

The problem as I see it is that Islam is, what, 600? years younger than Christianity. Luckily for the world, when certain Christians were insane, ideologically crazed zealots intent on forced conversions, the most technology they had at their disposal were swords and so on. Islamic extremists have reached the same stage at a time when they have today's technology and an awful lot more historical grievance to exploit. Fucking psychos.

There are 2 passages in the Old Testament that could be interpreted if you're an idiot/homophobic/full of hate as anti-gay.

Leviticus 20.13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.

You'd have to be crazy to think that means 'put to death' just because it SAYS 'put to death' ... oh but wait...

Lots of Christians love that line and use it to justify homophobia. The rest whine that it doesn't say it really and that's its all a conspiracy. Presumably a conspiracy of other Christians since they are the ones that make use of it.

Islam is a religion that teaches people it is their duty to teach people of it's existence in an effort to convert them.

Different branches have interpreted this very differently, ranging from 'you've told them what they choose to do with that information is up to them' to 'if they reject these teachings (exactly as we interpret them) they are going hell and you get free reign to treat them as subhuman'.

Current issues most likely stem from the desire to establish an Islamic state under the sunni's and expand that into an empire (so conversion of the masses) so is comparable to the original spread of Christianity and the original holy wars between the Moors and Christians.

Off the back of that there are loads of side issues that people have chosen to champion as their call to arms - foreign policy in the Middle East including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria and Palestine is a big one with groups like Isis taking exception to one or a multitude of issues. It's worth noting that although the wests motivation for becoming involved in the Middle East is almost certainly largely motivated by resources and monetary gain, intervention began mainly due to one branch if Islam trying to invade and enforce a particularly brutal branch of Islam.

The Paris attack was seemingly motivated by insulting the prophet and defending their prophets honour but I'm sure that was born out of deeper seeds than that.

It's hard to see a way out of the current state tbh. How do you negotiate with people whose primary aim is to make a whole world like them? I would hazard a guess that it will take a couple of generations for this to die down and even then it'll be an issue. The poisoned ideology has spread to far imo. I would guess when the oil rich states run out of cash (which is expected within a generation or two either due to resource or advances in alternatives) we'll see a shift into slightly calmer times. Added to that real life experiences of people may not measure up to what they expected (as is happening on occasion in Syria) and their backs will be turned on the message being preached.

We're dealing with a scattered army who believe that unbelievers lives are cheap and believers greatest rewards come when dead - it's hard to counter that.

France imported huge numbers of North Africans after the 2nd world war then marginalised them in ghettos, denied them equality or acknowledgement of their life experiences, experiences of racism or cultural identities and voila, here we are.

I know MNers traditionally despise the Daily Fail, but this offers a different viewpoint:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2902690/The-immigrant-ghettoes-terror-breeds-Concrete-warren-divided-boxes-houses-10-000-Muslims-grim-Parisian-enclave.html

It's surely no coincidence that, like in Britain, French prisons are places strongly associated with radicalisation. They are packed full of poorly educated, often illiterate, individuals with a tendency towards substance abuse and addiction.

Shower of fannies.

This is why religion should be banned it incites more hatred than anything else.

ridicule of my belief system by peeps who profess 'atheism'

Not sure which one is yours, but if it's a 'belief system' then it is ridiculous, probably dangerous and certainly damaging. Spreading belief systems is at least vandalism and as we've seen today often leads to people being killed in the name of your god/s.

Muddha, so a drone killing children is bad but terrorists storming a school and shooting children is that not so bad because other Muslims did it? I think foreign policy is an easy excuse to hide behind, the people that carry out these attacks are barbaric & brainwashed. Many of our home grown terrorists are good for nothing youth that end up being radicalised in prison, they don't care about foreign policy, they want to bully and inspire fear and go out in their own live version of grand theft auto.

I can't believe there's this many posts and so far only one person has mentioned Israel.

Extremists have a problem with each other and with people that don't believe what they believe for lost of very complex reasons, but their biggest gripe against the west is that we are facilitating and funding the systematic destruction of countless Muslim communities.

They have valid reason to be extremely pissed off with us, it's just that a few fundamentalists with crazy ideas take it too far, because to protest democratically wouldn't work out well for them if it were transferred to other areas.

"whoever's God you are"

I dunno if you know or care, but Allah is God- as in the same one as in Judiasm and Christianity.
They are all Abrahamic faiths.

Muhammad came about 600 years after Jesus claiming to be the true prophet of God and this is how/when Islam began. Unfortunately he wasn't anywhere near as nice as Jesus, and that's basically the problem.

I guess maybe they see Jews/Christians as being doubly disrespectful to Muhammad as they don't believe he was the prophet of their shared God? I dunno tho, not an expert by any means.

This is why religion should be banned it incites more hatred than anything else

1- no it doesn't, the vast majority of religious people are perfectly normal, flawed human beings having normal lives. A small minority do great things in the name of religion, a small minority do awful things.

2 - you can't ban people having beliefs ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Burning heretics and Protestant martyrs in Tudor England? Banning people from having faith hasn't worked out so well in the past.

3- most religious people abhor these terrorist acts and have every right to practice their religion in peace.

4- murderous cunts are murderous cunts. They become validated by their beliefs, whether they be religious or racial supremacy or whatever.

Unfortunately he wasn't anywhere near as nice as Jesus

He's a different type of character to Jesus. A military/political leader, compared to an itinerant preacher. I'm not sure "nice" comes into it.