To be worried about the Ched Evans threads on here

[corkysgran]

Sorry but this does seem like a witchunt to me. Many of the posters (who have signed the petition) obviously have little knowledge of the case. At one point a poster said Sports Direct would withdraw sponsorship if Evans was NOT signed and immediately others were vowing to boycott. Laughable and shows the level of thought before clicking. Online justice and the court of public opinion, not for me. As for expecting football, an industry corrupt from the very top (Sepp Blatter) and inherently sexist, to show any moral stance, get real.

AnyFucker a massive yes, I've been shocked at some of the crap kind, and usually sensible people I know have come out with on this case, it worries me how many people seem to lack a rudimental understanding of what constitutes rape and consent.

God yes AnyFucker.

Also talking about Grumpy - that Happy is fucking annoying isn't he?

One time, some years ago, when we lived in a one bed flat, my then dp and i got drunk and had sex. I then passed out fell asleep.
His mate came round and they socialised/ had a drink/ game whatever.
I slept through this.
I Would have been mighty surprised to find that his friend, or anyone else, had thought that I had consented to have sex with him by virtue of having had sex with someone else.
However, reading some of the shite here, I reckon I should have been more concerned.

I reckon I'll have a row tonight.

and Happy gets on my tits. ..The cheerful bastard

socialising? what is this thing of which you speak??

I think sleepy is depressed.

We don't know what the jury employed. A possibility is that they thought it wasn't sufficiently clear that the victim was too drunk to consent to sex with McDonald. However, by the time Evans arrived on the scene, she had become too drunk to know what was going on, hence she hadn't consented nor given Evans reasonable grounds to believe she had. If this is correct, McDonald was acquitted due to lack of evidence against him.

I understand that McDonald remained in the room. Possibly he encouraged Evans in his act, in which case he would have been guilty of inciting (if that is the correct UK term). I understand that he wasn't charged with this presumably because there was no reliable evidence of what he did say.

I'm left with the strong impression that McDonald was very lucky.

"what reasoning the jury employed".

phone...

I take a more positive view. It's episodes like these that change attitudes. A man got convicted in circumstances where in the past he wouldn't even have been charged.

The conviction has stuck, despite his attempts to get it set aside.

So far, his attempts to return to business as usual (without acknowledging his bad behaviour) have been stymied.

It demonstrates a decreased tolerance in society for rape, which will make many rapists think twice.

Yes Toad. I think CM was very lucky. And yes, I am delighted to see that society has moved forward in its attitude and understanding of rape.

Oh, how I wosh Doc and Sneezy would just get together.

Have fun you grumpy people (and Rooty, I don't think you were either).

wish, I wish. FGS!

YABU.

A sex offender (rapist, or paedophile, etc) should not be allowed to do a job that involves being in the public eye and being a celeb. Imagine if Rolph Harris presented another show, or Gary Glitter was guest at X Factor, wouldn't you be outraged? Would you think it was a witch hunt to not want these sex offenders to have another chance at fame?

I was once a juror on a rape trial. The evidence was totally full of holes, God knows how it had made it to court, but there we were for two weeks.

The terrifying thing was that there were several people on the jury who decided their verdict before hearing any evidence, and didn't change their views after hearing it, or the utter lack of it. The poor bloke just looked utterly crushed.

Thankfully the judge allowed a verdict with a hung jury and he was found not guilty, but it's really stayed with me that if there had been more people like those people on the jury, that would have been his fate sealed. And it would have been wrong.

I'm not saying Ched Evans isn't guilty, I have no idea about the details of his case. The experience I had really opened my eyes though

It doesn't just mean you think it sounds a bit dodgy.

On the subject of evidence. Has anyone listened to the podcast from the American public radio show This American Life, Serial? It was an interesting enactment of the difficulty of piecing together a course of events from witness testimony.

You're so rarely going to have an open and shut case. Two people who were alone in a bloody room together often can't agree what happened, let alone a jury trying to piece things together.

carly, in what way was the evidence "full of holes"?

Serial was brilliant. I have withdrawal symptoms.

I can't understand why the other guy having sex with her was found to be consensual but with CE wasn't?

Maybe the jury thought that as they got in a taxi together there may have been some conversation between CM and the victim as to what they were going to do when they got there. Hence CM presumed that he had obtained consent. It was not the same with Ched. She did not spend any time with him prior to being in the hotel room together, and by his own admission he did not exactly waste any time on social niceties once he got in the room.

I also believe it is possible to be drunk & stumbling around one minute, but the moment you lie down and your body starts relaxing you can pass out quite quickly. Therefore it would be irrelevant that there are images of the victim walking around prior to the rape. This does not mean she was still in a conscious state when CE arrived at the hotel.

Those comments on the Independent article are vile, BTW. I would give them a miss if you have blood pressure issues.

I hate that people are focusing on her having been able to walk around before getting to the hotel room. I can't even count the amount of times I've got home from a night out, intact, with all my belongings, directed a taxi driver to my house and even let myself in with my key, made myself some toast or whatever and remembered NONE of it.

It's amazing the number of people who think, 'well, CM got off, why didn't CE?' instead of, 'CE was convicted of rape, CM almost certainly should've been too, wasn't he very, very lucky...'

The sheer number of people who think consenting to sex with one man = consenting to sex with his mate, is quite chilling.

Can consent ever be consent when you're already naked, already having sex, and already intoxicated when another fit (as in strong) man let's himself into a locked hotel room. With two more men armed with camera phones outside the window. I mean really - even IF she had then said yes, does anyone really think that represents freely given consent? Really?

Thankfully he will not find a return to football at all easy.

www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jan/10/ched-evans-14-month-legal-battle?CMP=share_btn_tw