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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To even be considering reporting this to SS

50 replies

ChristmasCrackerPop · 03/01/2015 15:42

My friend came round at 9am New Years Day, with her two children in tow as she had yet another argument with her lazy partner and had fled the house.

She stayed for breakfast and once she calmed down I said to her son aged 5, 'Now you can go home and spend some time with X, that will be fun' he suddenly started roaring no, I don't like him which she brushed off very quickly.

When she went to put her DD in the car, my curiosity of the situation got the better of me and I asked her little boy 'Why is it you don't like X' he suddenly put his face down into his coat and shouted 'because he headlocks me' I responded 'I'm sure he just loves playing with you, as long as he doesn't smack your bottom' then he wispered 'He does'

the partner isn't the Dad to either of them, but he's taken on the girl as his own but not the boy, neither have fathers involved. She is currently PG with the partners baby and I'm worried about all of them.

OP posts:

Nanny0gg · 03/01/2015 16:45

'Oh he's not v fond of X'

How heartbreaking is that? And she's having a baby with this man?

So what is likely to happen to him when the baby's born?

Isn't a call to the NSPCC for advice worth doing?

Birdsgottafly · 03/01/2015 18:18

The NSPCC will pass this onto SS, they've got to go by the book.

Knowing that the thresholds have risen for intervention to happen and that the Mum is dismissing what is happening to hang on to her Man, this won't warrant a plan, at all.

It may give the Partner power, that she could lose her baby, if she doesn't shut up.

I've seen the Men gain power as SS involvement has stepped up. I'd love to be able to say that every SW is aware that extra power has been handed to the abuser, but they aren't.

If you work in the System, you have to trust it, but it doesn't always work well.

That's why SS utilises good Family/Friebd support, because that's what works. Outcomes are successful when we have friends/family that are concerned about the welfare of everyone, whilst proritising the child and will get involved.

Tbh, the OP can do that, at this stage without SS, or the school, yet.

Hopefully the child will open up more and it could be taken to the school, who can go up to Level 2 CP.

Too early an investigation and everyone will be silent and defensive.

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 18:58

Op you did the wrong thing you should never ask children leading questions you listen with out judgment or comment and allow children to disclose

I am 99% certain he will deny he said this to you and you will be branded a trouble maker and be frozen out if your not frozen out he will not ever say anything to you again

*this is why you never ask children leading questions because you leave yourself open to the alleration YOU put it into his head if you do ring ss please make it cleat you were asking leading questions to a small child

Also the other thing is even if this is true you do know it is LEGAL to smack your child LEGAL weather you like if or anyone else ss don't have enough staff to deal with thing people do to their children that are illegal

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 19:07

Personally of she ever finds out you asked her child this I would imagin it will be the last you see of her

Answers of children who have been asked leading questions have to be disregarded and often it's audits asking inaprote questions that lead to ss not being able to uncover truth you have no clue what damage is done by this

A adult sits a child down in a hushed tone while his parent is out of the room and asks dose you daddy smack your bum boy who is only 5 btw says yes dear lord I wonder what a child psychologist would make of that I fostered for years before I adopted and never would of dreamed of asking a child a direct question like that espically one so young

You should have allowed him to talk with out comment and also tried to ascertain the bigger picture from the parent now you want to call ss on the back of a comment you gained by leading him with out knowing what the frigg is going on oh dear

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 03/01/2015 19:31

She never asked him a leading question, She was trying to reassure the poor boy after his response to the first question.

Waltonswatcher · 03/01/2015 19:35

As the op told it it is a leading question and has possibly put the idea into that child's head .
But op, spend more time with this family and really be sure there's an issue before you possibly send them all into hell on a hand cart .

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 19:42

' I responded 'I'm sure he just loves playing with you, as long as he doesn't smack your bottom' then he wispered 'He does'

When I was doing my child protection training we were told in no uncertain terms NOT to ask the children leading questions to resist the urge to poke and prod for info which is feet hard when living with a child we were told it could collapse a case if it came to court it's damaging for the children and can put paid to really finding out what's going on

To be honest it's actually a text book leading question

www.speakupbesafe.org/teachers/disclosure-for-teachers-and-schools.pdf

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 19:43

please read the link I have posted op please read all it's about leading questions

marne2 · 03/01/2015 19:43

She didn't ask the boy if x had hurt him, she asked why he doesn't like x, so how could she have put the idea of physical abuse in his head?

If it was me I would phone NSPCC, if anything happened to this child and you knew there was possible abuse then you would feel guilty for not reporting it. He doesn't sound like a happy child, he is quite, rarely talks and looked sad, surely this should ring alarm bells?

OP, it's hard for anyone to judge the situation, we don't know your friend or x, you do, I think you have to follow your gut instinct and do what you feel is best.

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 19:50

Marene

This is what she said this is a direct quote take form the op

' I responded 'I'm sure he just loves playing with you, as long as he doesn't smack your bottom' then he wispered 'He does'

That is a leading question

OriginalGreenGiant · 03/01/2015 20:10

Ds2 is 4.8 and will still sometimes answer questions/give information based on what will get the best reaction or what he thinks the asker wants to hear.

If you asked him 'Ds, your mummy doesn't hit you, does she?' with a concerned look...'your mummy doesn't chase you down the garden with a chainsaw does she? Your mummy doesn't forget to feed you for three days sometimes, does she?' I can pretty much guarantee your answers would be Yes, yes and yes. Possibly with some enhancements thrown in by ds2.

It was a definitely a leading question op, and as such, the response of a 5 year old to such a question cannot be relied on or believed.

zoemaguire · 03/01/2015 20:17

Yy to original. My ds is the same age and you can almost SEE the cogs whirring when you ask him a question, as he tries to work out what answer it is you want to hear!

Nuggy2013 · 03/01/2015 20:18

It's down to SS to investigate, not throwing them into peoples lives has allowed a lot of abuse to go on in families where friends/neighbours/relatives etc could have reported but felt they 'shouldn't'. I speak from experience.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 03/01/2015 20:23

A none parent does not have the fall back of reasonable chastisement

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 20:53

Irrenivent, it's legal to smack however you or others may dislike it

And that's if if happend at all children should not be asked leading questions and I acutely find it a bit under hand that op waited till her friend was putting the child in the car so she could question him as she was curious as she put it

Ss would not follow up on a child who has been asked leading questions this is exactly one of the reasons police are not allowed to question children on their own foster carers as I was were certainly not allowed to question children if they made a disclosure we noted it down and reported it to the physcoligist.

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 20:54

Under Section 58 of the Children Act 2004, it is unlawful for a parent or carer to smack their child, except where this amounts to ‘reasonable punishment’, though this is not defined in the legislation. As such, whether a smack amounts to reasonable punishment will depend on the circumstances of each case, taking into consideration factors like the age of the child and the nature of the smack. Physical punishment will be considered ‘unreasonable’ if it leaves a mark on the child or if the child is hit with an implement such as a cane or a belt.

It is illegal for teachers, nursery workers and child care workers to smack another person’s child. If a person is employed privately by a parent, such as a baby sitter or nanny, the parent may give permission for that person to smack their child as long as it is reasonable and does not amount to an offence.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/01/2015 20:56

Op isent a child protection professional, how was she to know. It concerning about the fact he was distressed about going back to his stepfather, the headlock.

Lagoonablue · 03/01/2015 21:03

Canigetanamen, I don't think you are helping. We get the CP professional POV a but OP only trying to help. OP can phone NSPCC for advice. No one is going to simply brush this off because a lay person didn't ask a very broad, open question.

OP ask NSPCC for advice. You don't have to give names. Stay close to the family, support the little boy. Help him know he can come to you.

FloatIsRechargedNow · 03/01/2015 21:07

what Birds and Herren have said - be as supportive as you can and be careful not to ask leading questions. Offer to have the boy and possibly his sister stay with you for overnights when you can, ostensibly to 'give their mum a break' but really to give the kids a break. They might not be 'abused' but they're having a crap time so as much comfort and warmth you can give them will help make their lives easier.

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 21:09

Bit when she is saying what happend she's need to tell the person on the phone she asked a leading question because what to do next will be based on what she tells them

I would hate for the op to tell this as if he simply disclosed this which he he did NOT

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 21:11

Op should be supportive and try to assertain what is excatly happening

Glitterytwigsnshit · 03/01/2015 21:12

Report it. Please report it.

Sounds like an unhealthy relationship and as awful as it is for her she is an adult but her children seem to be caught in the middle of it and have no choice but to remain there because their mother continues the relationship.

You don't have to tell her what he told you, the fact she brushed it off when he showed reluctance to go home speaks volumes. I wouldn't tell her what he told her but I would definitely report it.

Canigetanamen · 03/01/2015 21:12

Oh and don't ask the children ANY more question no matter how much it's burning you to know

Bulbasaur · 03/01/2015 21:17

It often doesn't take much for a parent (Mother) to complacent and dismissive of what her children are suffering, but you get flamed on here for saying that.

I can't tell you how many abuse apologists have jumped on me because I pointed out that the mother's are to blame for allowing their child to be abused instead of leaving the situation.

In any case, it depends on a lot of factors OP. Is the partner doing headlocks out of anger or is he playing too rough? I had uncles that played too rough with me as a kid and I didn't like it, but it wasn't abusive or malicious in intent. If it's rough housing he needs to tone it down if the kid isn't having fun.

I would call SS or something similar to get the appropriate advice on what to do. They might have more practical steps you can take. But at this current point in time, there just may not be enough for a report to be made.

In the meantime, keep an open door policy for your friend in case she needs to flee.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/01/2015 21:22

Yes op can phone NSPCC or SS to get advice and I think she should if she is concerned for the child.

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