to worry about the slippery slope of taking away the universal benefit of winter fuel allowance

[verasomerset]

So now ids will be taking away this formally universal benefit to some people in warmer countries.

This strikes me as very unfair as it is a universal benefit that is not means tesed. The people living is Spain will have paid all their tax and stamp just like everyone else. Also it is sometimes the poorest people that have moved to Spain due to high UK costs and releasing equity in their UK home, these people may need it for air con.

Surely the start of the slippery slope was taking away the universal child benefit?

I don't think that 'pensioners' who can afford 3 or 4 cruises a year should get a winter fuel allowance. All benefits should be means tested including free travel. Benefits should be targeted at the most needy no randomly handed out.

Are you for real It should be means tested. I have a relative living in Cyprus. He's not short of money but he gets it. I had an Aunt who was wealthy and lived in a nursing home and she got an enhanced rate because she was over 80. Her bills were included in her care fees This money would be better spent elsewhere. Both my relatives worked all their lives and paid into the "system" but neither of them needed this money. The Cyprus relative jokes about it being his annual bonus

Whilst people in this country are using foodbanks and can't afford heating for their kids, I couldn't give a flying fuck that Mr & Mrs X, who have fucked off to Spain and are putting £0 into our economy, are going to lose their Winter Fuel Allowance!

As you can see on the daily mail most liked comments most people think this is unfair

It gets better and better

I don't think expats should get it and I think the qualifying age should be 70.

its about time the pensioners were "in this together with us"

Many (not all) pensioners get benefits they do not need.
Many (not all) pensioners have plenty of money to heat their homes but will not bloody spend it!

Well, most other benefits are means tested, pension is the only one that most people would still fight to avoid being means tested, and actually they've sort of brought that in by the back door decades ago with top up pension benefits for the poorest that are means tested, so while the flagship pension is a flat rate, in reality it's not.

Winter fuel allowance didn't exist for the bulk of the working lives of the current pensioners, they didn't pay in being promised this, they paid in only being promised a state pension. That they will still get, even if they move overseas.

It's also worth noting that retired Brits settled in other countries are often entitled to benefits from their new country's welfare system.

It strikes me as very unfair as it is a universal benefit that is not means tested

My parents get it, but spend the colder months travelling. I see homeless people freezing on the streets who can't access it (or shelter). As you said very unfair.

My parents get it and spend 13 weeks over the Winter in the Algarve.

PILs get it and spend ridiculous amounts of money keeping their house at 28 degrees. They'd do this anyway, they bough solar panels for their because they were't getting enough interest on their savings!

I'm disabled, we heat our old, draughty house to 20 degrees and I sit under blankets.

It is very unfair.

It should be means tested in the UK, and anyone who has chosen to live abroad should have it removed. They should never have been given it in the first place.

' I couldn't give a flying fuck that Mr & Mrs X, who have fucked off to Spain and are putting £0 into our economy, are going to lose their Winter Fuel Allowance!'

And come back here to use the NHS. They have money to go back and forth to use that.

If it is possible to means test child benefit and take it away from high earners, it must be just as essy to do the same for the winter fuel allowance if people are receiving a high pension.

As for those who move abroad, that was there choice.

YABU. I work with older people who are disabled. Many of them sit under blankets, freezing their backsides off. I'd like to think we could afford to increase WFAs for people like that.

They should never have had it if they are living abroad anyway. And it should be means tested in the uk. Pensions will be means tested soon enough anyway, so yes it's a slippery slope, same as with Child benefit. Soon the only people who get that will be those who get tax credits. Think it will be rolled into universal credit eventually.

But the money needs saving now anyway - and keeping a benefit that many don't need for a few more years won't stop the eventual decimation of the state pension anyway.

Oh do fuck off OP. Preferably to Spain.

CB was a Universal Benefit I'm guessing you were worried about that too and voiced your concerns,no thought not.

In my job, I have to go to visit people - mostly the elderly - and honestly, while I know that pensioners as a while aren't badly off, it has nonetheless come as such a shock to discover just how poor many of them in fact are.

I gave seen both sides of the coin in the last month, I work for the Salvation Army and have been amazed at how many pensioners have donated their winter fuel payments to us, yes its true that some of them were extremely well off, however I personally know a few and I can assure you that they were not the ones with the final salary pensions or take 5 holidays a year, they were ordinary working class pensioners who are only on the state pension, yet they donated their money to help others.

On the other hand I was contacted by someone who knowing I work for the SA asked me to help their elderly neighbour, I got in touch with someone from the organisation who could help, I heard about him again the other day.

This elderly man due to an error by the pension department was not getting his full state pension, he didn't realise this, he was trying to pay for everything didn't know he could apply for benefits like pension credit, housing benefit council tax relief etc.

The Lt told me his was an extreme case but he has helped 100s of pensioners claim means tested benefits that they didn't know they were entitled to.

And that's the problem if we only give it to people who apply we MUST ensure every pensioner is contacted and given the information needed to apply, otherwise some who need it will lose out.

If we use means tested benefits like pension credit as a 'passport' to the winter fuel payment, we MUST ensure that any pensioner not getting PC are not in fact entitled to it rather then just not claiming it (if that makes sense)

and at the DM comments.

All benefits should be based on need and means tested, however the process to claim should be transparent and easily accessible.

The only thing that bothers me about withdrawing it is the administration cost of making it means tested and policing it. It may well have been cheaper to leave it as a universal benefit. Same with child benefit.

I think.you have a point they have already means tested child benefit they may do the same with DLA /pip we get DLA well my son does for his autism we are currently only eligible for this and child benefit it could be a slippery slope.

I agree that winter fuel allowance shouldn't be paid to people who don't need it, such as DH and I - though I don't know if there's a way to opt out.

I guess it depends on what information is being held on the DWP database. If they can identify that someone is living outside the UK, especially if they're somewhere like Spain, then it should be easy to add a bit of code to cease the winter fuel allowance.

I don't agree with the concept that having paid tax and NI all our lives, we should then be entitled to all the benefits. The whole purpose of the welfare state is to support those in need.