to think that my friend is making a huge mistake, giving up her chance to have children for this man?

[PolarExpressionist]

My best friend of fifteen years met her DP three years ago. He made it clear to her from the beginning that he didn't want children - he's a bit older than her and has two grown up sons and some grandchildren. She's totally in love with him.

She always said she accepted his terms, even though she's always wanted children and still does. In 'exchange', she says, he agreed to get married - something he didn't want to do at first. She sees this as a compromise.

Her family aren't supportive of their relationship, because of the age gap (she's close in age to his eldest son and the no children thing being the reasons) and she's cut out important people in her life because of this, close family members who think she's making a mistake.

The thing is I agree with a lot of what her family are concerned about. This man has a history of stringing women along for years and dropping them when they start to expect too much of him, children, marriage etc.

I think she's making a mistake in giving up something she wants so badly for a man who's only adjusted his life a little bit in return In the early days I expressed this concern but since the fallout with her family she's needed someone to have her back a bit, and I've not wanted to be yet another naysayer in her life.

All she talks about is this decision she's made to not have children. It comes up all the time. She's always saying how lovely it would be to start a family, but that it's worth it. I feel she's either trying to convince me or herself and sometimes I feel like pleading with her to just end things with him and do what will make her happy, but I don't know if I'm just looking at this from the angle of someone who has children? I knew I wanted children and I can't imagine changing my mind.

Ultimately I know it's none of my business. I just feel as though I'm watching my best friend make the biggest mistake of her life and I can't say or do anything - can I?

Oh dear - it sounds like he wants her as she is cheaper than a prostitute or a housekeeper - I seriously wonder if she will get anything out of this marriage long term other than no kids.

Sounds like a very one sided relationship - if she talks about the no kids aspect a lot she wants you to agree with her decision so she can justify her actions, as other people clearly think she is wrong and she wants someone to say it is right. But it isn't, I'm afraid.

There are other men, and who will happily have children with her, shame she's picked such a fright.

As a friend you are in a cleft stick because you want to support her, yet can see she's going to probably get hurt - very difficult situation. She will interpret your support as approval.

He sounds like a horrible man. He conceived a child with his ex while knowing his partner wanted children? She's an idiot for staying with him and I hope she realises it soon.

I agree with amuminscotland that you need to have one serious conversation with her and tell her that while you don't understand why she would give up having children for this man, you will always be her friend.

Does she lack confidence generally?

Wow your friend knew he was sleeping with his ex? Does she think he respects her in any way now that she's proved how desperate she is to be with him. Nobody is forcing her to be with him, that's all her choice.

Actually this happened to a friend of mine. In the beginning, I felt much the same way about her relationship as you do about your friend's.

But I was wrong! She's now in her late forties and incredibly happy - she still has a very fulfilling career, great lifestyle, constantly dashing off on amazing holidays and very devoted to her various step children, nephews, nieces and godchildren.

She may have the occasional wobble about not having had children of her own, but on the whole she is very happy, very in love, very satisfied with her lot.

Wow. Whats worse? The fact that he was clearly playing her in the most appalling way, the fact that his wife was probably none the wiser (or playing "pick me" ) or the fact that she believed that crock of shit? I cant decide.....

He isn't married (my 'friends' story is not the OPs). He has been in a relationship with my 'friend' for 15 years, they have lived together the whole time but are not married. She looks after the kids he has with his ex every other weekend. It is all very bizarre and I'm not sure why she hasn't dumped him and moved on but I am told there are sone cultural issues involved which I don't fully understand. As far as I am concerned he cheated, he's disrespectful, he's an ass and she is a fool. I don't see why cultural issues would change anything.

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Different men ketchup. The OP's friend's man has played a straight bat and done nothing wrong - the charmer with the babymama was mentioned by another poster.

Tell her once about your misgivings then leave it. She knows the score and it's her decisionmistake to make.

He is not unreasonable to not want DC with her.

Agree with pps that it might be worth reflecting back to her, or raising it once. And try to avoid being put in the position of validating/cheerleading.

"having her back" might mean some gentle challenge.

With her family, did they express concern for her and then respect her decisions but she got upset and distanced herself, or did they continually criticise or interfere? If the former perhaps there could be scope for reconciliation?

PolarExpressionis Of course it is her life but you are her friend and you care.

I totally agree with AmuminScotland. Talk to her. Plan a time you can have lunch or whatever and just chat and just make it clear you love her and are supportive.

The fact she is bringing it up means it is on her mind and maybe she needs to discuss it in a good way with no pressure.

IMVHO no man is worth giving up having kids for if having kids is what you want to do. Ultimately, it will probably/possibly eat away at their relationship and in a few years or maybe a decade she will decide children are worth more than the man who will not give her what she wants. Or perhaps he will lose interest and move on. Either way she may find herself late thirties or early forties alone or looking for a new relationship or trying to have a baby.

Of course reproduction is not the be all and end all. BUT if you want a child/children you can't just sweep that under the carpet and pretend. In years to come her friends will have grown up kids, grandchildren etc, and she will have sacrificed that for a man. I don't believe there is only one person in the world we can love/marry.

I dated men when I was younger and as soon as one said no to kids I said bye to him, on our first blind date! It just came up in conversation - from him! He wisely wanted a woman who felt the same way as him, and it was not me.

This is not all about reproducing yourself, one of my children is a birth child and one adopted. I adore them both. Long before I married I knew what I wanted! I wanted a baby from age 17 and realistically a hubby and a family from age 27 - I finally got married in my 30s and got our dd aged 39 and our ds this year! This is not the same as marrying and then encountering fertility issues etc (as I did) it is a concious decision by one person which will ultimately bring heartache to the other. They are just not suited because of this and eventually that may well break them apart IMVHO.

Good luck. You are a good friend.

Inthedarkaboutfashion

Blimey. Obviously someone got pleasure out of it if a baby resulted.

Op, there's nothing you can do. I'd want her to change her mind too.

PS I totally agree he is not in the wrong not to want a child. But older men with kids who are involved with younger women without kids are in a situation which means some things probably gotta give. In the situations I know of personally some men have compromised on one child or eventually two, meaning at 50 they started the whole process over with already grown up kids.

It's not wrong not to want any/more kids but ultimately the person who is being compromised needs to decide if it is worth it. Not just once (IMHO), not a one off decision, but every time it comes up in their head with the realisation that this decision may be irreversible.

The good things about threads like this is that they remind me how normal my own relationship is and how respectful my husband is towards me.

PPS my friend lived with her divorced man and his kids in her thirties. I know she would have loved to get married and have a family but it did not happen. By the time the relationship ended she was on the older side of her thirties and finding a new partner, starting again and having the baby she would so much have loved to have were so much harder. She has not ever managed to have that family she so longer for. I did not know her well enough at that time to have told her, but if I could have, I think I would have. You can do something but agree a good one off chat is better than nagging!

He has been honest with her and she has accepted that children will not be a part of her life if she remains with him.

Whether she accepts that on a permanent basis remains to be seen but really, it isn't any of your business.

I don't think I could love a man enough to give up my chance of having children but clearly, your friend and I are different people.

She would get pregnant in a heartbeat if he changed his mind.

This is the crux of the matter - I bet she is hoping to change his mind.

He has been perfectly reasonable and honest with her, on the face of it. It is not 'stringing someone along' if he makes it clear that marriage and children are not for him, and ends relationships on that basis. It is being very considered. The man is a grandfather. His family is complete.

I would do what Isetan suggested.

This man has a history of stringing women along for years and dropping them when they start to expect too much of him, children, marriage etc.

I don't think this is fair at all in the context of your friend since you've said he's been upfront and honest with her from the start. As someone whose closest friend emphatically doesn't want children and has had people say she's 'wasted their time' despite being honest from the start, I wonder just how many of those women were actually strung along and how many refused to listen.

She's hoping to change his mind, either through time or by a 'happy accident' I expect.

Tell her the truth. You compromise on small things in a relationship- both of you do at times-but the big life changers should never be compromised on or you'll end up very resentful, bitter and regretful.

A close friend of mine told me she'd decided that being with her oh was worth giving up having children for (big age gap, he had kids and didn't want more). I told her I wasn't sure she would be able to live with that, but I'd be there for her either way.

15 years on they have two kids, by mutual choice, and are still going strong.

It's not always as black and white as it seems; you have to let her make her choices, you don't know how life will pan out.