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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

A boring train one, WWBU?

42 replies

LastTangoInBognor · 27/12/2014 22:58

Got on a train today for a 3 hour trip. Before we even sat down a man elsewhere in the carriage had already kicked off massively about someone sitting in his reserved seat, complete with threats of legal action. Another guy with his three young boys had to vacate his seat for an elderly woman to sit down - which he did with good grace. Basically, either people had removed a bunch of reservation cards, or there'd been some cock up so they were never there - who knows.

Got to our seats and there was a man and a woman in them. I said I'm sorry, made some lame joke about adding to the carnage etc, these are our seats.

The man said 'there are other seats in the carriage, why don't you go see if they're reserved and if you can't find somewhere, come back and I'll get up'.

I said 'it's ok, I'd rather just take these ones'.

He said 'well, I'd rather sit with my family', gesturing across the aisle to a woman with a young toddler (maybe 18 months ish).

I didn't realise he was with them, when I arrived he'd been reading a book. There WERE seats further down the carriage, but given the clear issues with reserved seats, who knows whether they were reserved or not.

I apologised and said we'd really rather have our seats and maybe they could find seats in the empty ones.

He got up. The woman next to him got up also (it seems they didn't know eachother) and we sat down.

He sat with his OH and toddler and proceeded to make passive aggressive remarks for the next twenty minutes about 'pairs of seats elsewhere'.

WIBU to insist on taking our seats? I felt like I wasn't because a) if you want three seats together, then reserve them! b) if we'd gone to sit elsewhere then it turned out that THOSE seats were reserved and we'd had to come back then it's just more faff and c) you were reading a book! your OH was looking after the baby! don't pretend you had desperate baby-minding duty, you PA ass!

But then I thought well it's christmas and maybe DH and I should've just gone elsewhere and sucked it up. We'd have survived.

OP posts:

Mehitabel6 · 28/12/2014 07:40

I booked my seat 3 months in advance- it isn't good enough to be then be told the train company messed up on the reserved sign. They sold me a particular seat- I know which it is (I have the ticket to prove it) and I intend sitting in it!

BoomBoomsCousin · 28/12/2014 08:05

No *ThereIs, I'm right . According to the railway bylaws, people are only prohibited from sitting in seats for which they do not have a reservation if those seats have a notice posted by the train company.

If the train company have failed to post that notice that the train staff need to find you a seat or provide you with compensation )25% of your fare on East Midlands).

Mehitabel6 · 28/12/2014 08:13

However- I have found that if you stand there with your reservation ticket people will move- or they have so far. Nice to know that you can have compensation if you book a particular seat 3 months in advance and then someone on the day decides they will have it.

wowfudge · 28/12/2014 08:45

I can't stand it when people sit where they shouldn't and then try to intimidate the person with the reservation into finding another seat. These people are often the same ones who think nothing of giving their bag a seat on a busy train, etc. Arseholes.

BoomBoomsCousin · 28/12/2014 09:29

But these aren't people who sat where they shouldn't. They sat in empty seats with no sign of a reservation. It isn't their fault and they aren't being arseholes to think they shouldn't have to play hot seats when they get on a train. It's the train company's fault not theirs.

19lottie82 · 28/12/2014 10:26

Boom that doesn't mean they shouldn't move when someone else explains and proves that it's their seat. The OP paid and reserved that seat just because the PA man wasn't aware of it doesn't mean he should be allowed to sit there.

BoomBoomsCousin · 28/12/2014 11:21

Yes it does. As I pointed out, the railway bylaws only protect "your" reserved seat if the train company have posted a notice that it is reserved. Having reserved seating hold when there are no notices is a logistical nightmare and completely unfair on those without reservations as they would have no way of knowing where they can sit.

UptheChimney · 28/12/2014 11:42

Not all ToCs use a physical ticket on your seat when it's reserved. Most nowadays use the electronic notice above your seat.

Funny how many people just can't manage to see those

Trills · 28/12/2014 11:47

If I had been travelling alone, I would have found another seat.

If I had been travelling with children, I would have insisted on the seats that I had reserved, so I could show my bit of paper saying "these seats are mine".

It's a bit unreasonable to say "if you want to sit together you should reserve" - there are all sorts of reasons why this family may not have been able to do so.

It's not unreasonable to say "if other people have reserved seats and want to sit in them, you should let them sit in the seats that they have reserved".

NotOnMyWatchOhNo · 28/12/2014 13:29

Boom there may well have been a reserved seat ticket put on the reserved seat but they are very easy to remove.

KatieKaye · 28/12/2014 13:42

OP you were totally in the right to ask to sit in the seats you had paid to reserve.

He was being an arse but with any luck will now know to reserve seats if it is so important that his family all sit together.

Ormally · 28/12/2014 13:57

Quite so KatieKaye...but what if the train company then omits to reserve the seats for them despite all the passenger's best precautions? What then? Back to original problem, I suspect. However important it is to you, there's no guarantee of getting your own way when it comes to travelling on the great British rails. In my long and tedious experience with trains (not a driver so not a lot of choice), there's a degree of 'suck it up' that comes with the territory, whether you think this is acceptable or not.

KatieKaye · 28/12/2014 14:18

I think the answer is that OP would be able to show her reservation booking and payment and the stroppy guy would not be able to do so, because he hadn't booked.

There is no evidence there was a failure on behalf of the train company to reserve the seats, only that there were no reservation cards on view. This could be because the train company hadn't put them out or because someone, perhaps even stroppy guy had removed them. There doesn't have to be a reservation card to mean the seat is reserved - airlines, theatres etc don't do this, although it is customary on trains.

the guy wasn't unreasonable for sitting there in the first place, but his subsequent actions were unreasonable.

Like you, I don't drive so am well use to the vagaries of public transport!

Original poster

LastTangoInBognor · 28/12/2014 14:41

I'm really glad the PA man didn't know the rule about the notice having to be posted in order for the seat reservation to work. I'd no doubt have given in if he'd started quoting it at me, but my outrage-meter is ticking up just thinking about it.

On the other hand, if that's true, and it's one of those trains with the cards rather than the tickers, then what's to stop people nicking the cards and then smugly quoting the rules at people?

OP posts:

JennyBlueWren · 28/12/2014 14:47

YWBU if there was a problem with reservations but WNBU if there reservations were working. If you are elderly/pregnant/ otherwise a priority for a seat then you get to ask people to move and expect them to! I hope the toddler was not taking up a seat. It annoys me when people's bags/babies/smaller children take up seats and people have to stand.

The train we were on yesterday had had problems with reservations (there were none!) and was short of carriages -at least one short as we were booked for Coach E and there were only 4 carriages. Luckily we got on at the starting station -I wouldn't have been able to stand for 3 hours as heavily pregnant. However at every station after that increasing numbers of people were on the platforms.
I heard one man say to his family group "it's okay we've got reserved seats so we can tell people to move" even though there were continuous announcements about the problem. He was going further down the carriage though so don't know what came of it.

TrendStopper · 28/12/2014 15:36

I once overheard a train conductor telling a passenger that reserving a seat doesnt mean that you are entitled to that seat. The reason is that you dont pay to reserve the seats.

muminhants · 29/12/2014 17:00

I've just looked at the National Conditions of Carriage and rule 40 refers to the rail company only needing to guarantee you a seat if you have reserved (therefore implying that they have to guarantee you a seat if you have reserved). See www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf page 20

Rule 41 talks of compensation if the reservation is not honoured.

I would read the rules as (a) the rail company has to find you a seat and (b) compensate you for the fact that there is no reservation as promised.

In your case I would have asked the person to move out of the seat and if they had not, asked the train guard to either ask them to move or find me a seat elsewhere.

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