To not know what to say

[bluejanuary]

One of my closest friends adopted a little boy a year ago with her husband.

I knew how difficult they have been finding it and today have found out the adoption has broken down

My heart breaks for her but I just don't know what to say. I've said I understand why it's happened.

Any advice from anyone (I have namechanged for this post sorry.)

[LuluJakey1]

I have friends who adopted two siblngs. One was 4, one was 18 months. My friends both work in professions you would think might have helped them cope. One is a psychologist, the other works with special needs children. The children are in their early 20s now but both have been very damaged by their early childhoods. The older one has coped better but has struggled all their life with a desperate need for attention that led to awful choices with relationships, very risky behaviours and really low selfesteem. The younger one has been in trouble since being at primary school- started off with what seemed like just naughtiness, lots of lying, then very risky behaviours a few times which put their lfe at risk, stealing from the age of 11 onwards -from friends, teachers, sibling, family friends, family, parents- drug taking, car stealing, vandalism.
Is lovely on a one to one but just makes bad choice after bad choice and tells lies.
One of birth parents has been a large part in ongoing destruction with the children - and once they were in their mid- teens, social services could no longer control that contact because the children made their own choices when they were being contacted.
The stress of it has ended in their marriage breaking up once the children had left home. They are still friends and together as a family but have a huge sense of failure about what they feel they could not do to help their children in life.
I don't think you can over estimate the lasting damage caused to some children by the terrible things that happen to them when they are very little.

[TendonQueen]

Thing is, given that biological families 'break down', it can't be surprising that it can happen to any family. It is perhaps more surprising that it doesn't happen more. Very sad for everyone. They must all feel devastated.

[forumdonkey]

Just support the parents OP.

Very few people have any idea about what happens with children with attachment disorder. I have seen foster and adoptions fail many times both in my private life but many in my professional.

When I was a child many children were wanted and loved but adoption was sometimes the only option for teen pregnancy and unmarried mothers (I'm only in my 40's btw) but now for children be placed into care or for adoption they have usually been removed from a family often due to abuse or neglect. Many people think that even if the child is very young eg under 1 yrs they have no knowledge of their environment but unfortunately that is not the case and abuse and neglect have serious implications to the brains development eg attachment disorder. Unfortunately the name 'attachment disorder' does not fully describe the effect on the childs MH and behaviour.

[Goldmandra]

she used to bring him in the office and he would come round and chat with us all, he sat on my knee and we drew on paper/coloured in with highlighters.

Children with attachment difficulties can be amazingly engaging with adults who they don't know well. Some are incredibly affectionate to people they hardly know. However this is a coping strategy and the contrast between this and their behaviour at home with those who care for them can be staggering.

[LoisHatesChristmas]

Op I would just be a friend and listen, there isn't much you can say. Sad situation. I agree with pp to have this moved off aibu.

[LIZS]

How desperately sad for all concerned. Have I understood correctly that a sibling is remaining with them ? If so that will complicate matters if they are required to maintain contact with the boy and birth family. Try to focus on positive memories and avoid recrimination. Ss can minimise issues but also the age of the child was a prime time for these problems to become more apparent, which is noone's fault.

[Goldmandra]

I was just "thinking out loud" as it were, wondering how to present information in a way that is clear and accurate and doesn't have people running for the hills at the same time!

I know exactly where you're coming from.

I'm glad it isn't my responsibility to solve this problem. I don't think there is a definitive answer but it is clear that some adoptions go ahead without the parents knowing he reality of the situation they are taking on.

[Waltonswatcher]

This is the right place for this thread . Discussion about children in the care system should take place far more openly.
I've experienced adoption of a family member -I was horrified that a full 12 mths had to pass whilst the birth mother was allowed to try to turn things around . That baby missed out on the vital first year with loving its prospective parents .
Obvious we aren't here to judge , but views must be aired no matter how uncomfortable . This child has been rejected again . I'm not blaming anyone . Just stating that in order to improve the chances of older children finding families we need to fully understand the issues and the high risks .
God it's too depressing . I'm miserable today as it is . Op your friend has been through hell and I'm sorry for all of them .

[Chippednailvarnish]

Children with attachment difficulties can be amazingly engaging with adults who they don't know well. Some are incredibly affectionate to people they hardly know

Well said Gold. Overly forward and friendliness from a young child can be a sign they have been neglected...

[Waltonswatcher]

Actually guys listen to this .
There is hope .
My mum is the legal guardian to her grandson . He suffered appallingly at the hands of my sister . (Drink drugs and the bastard drug pushers who used her .)
We all thought there was no hope . His first few formative years with her were shocking -we did all we could but the legal system protects the mum not the child . Eventually we took it to court to remove him .
My nephew was a mess . Years of hell followed . Years of hell . Attachment disorder brings foulness to all who dare show love to that child .
But -he's now 16 and is great . He's just the nicest kid . It can be done . Ok not in this case, but for anyone going through it , it can be done . Love can win eventually .

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

For Furry
I think, if you've never been in the position of 'adoptee' before that you should hold your own judgements before calling somebody who actually has been in that position, judgemental. You just don't have the right, none at all.

OP... I'm very sad to read that the adoption has broken down but I don't think you should post speculation or details. How does that help your friend exactly? This doesn't impact you, it impacts her. How do you think you could support your friend?

[Shockers]

Gemma... please don't. You have absolutely no idea what it is like to parent a child who is capable of charming others for a short time, yet simultaneously destroying every positive part of your character... through no fault of their own.

What you need , as a modern adoptive parent (we are no longer in the era where healthy intelligent young women give up their baby because it represents 'the best chance' for the baby they love) is for people around you to remember and encourage your previous character. People that don't feed off your adoptive child's need for love. Those who really get it will refer them back to you as their primary love/caregiver. This takes years to cement in the mind of a child that has been through many fragmented relationships with caregivers.

Unfortunately, lots of well meaning people think that 30 minutes of their attention makes them special and remembered in these children's minds.

[Shockers]

Furry is an adoptee.

Not an adopter.

That is why she felt this so keenly.

But many modern adoptions are probably quite different to her experience .

[Shockers]

Sorry Lying... I think I misinterpreted your post.

[bluejanuary]

Lying, I have deliberately avoided doing both.

I have not said one word about my own background or family because that isn't what this thread is about. One case of adoption breakdown doesn't speak for all adoptions, any more than one case of a birth child going massively off the rails is indicative of all birth children rebelling hugely.

What I objected to was the insistence that that poster was not judging, and then went on to judge. I also object to the insinuation that the child was given up "because he was adopted" - he was, in a sense - but not in the way that poster meant.

[TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet]

Hello there
So sorry to read this.
Just wondered if the OP would like to move this to another topic?
Let us know

[bluejanuary]

If you feel it is causing unwanted distress to some Olivia then please feel free to do so as that certainly wasn't my intention.

In general, though, I'm not sure it's a bad thing to have it "out there" and discussed. I mean no disrespect to anybody in stating this but frequently I come across people who genuinely have an image of adoption that puts me in mind of Pound Puppies - those droopy-eared dogs with huge eyes longing for a "forever home" and it comes as a shock to realise the reality is so different.

I'm not sure when adoption changed from "unmarried mum, often in her teens" to "children (rarely babies) who have experienced neglect OR abuse OR abandonment - or all" - (1990s?) but it has and recognising that sometimes the challenges this presents goes above and beyond what ordinary, albeit kind and loving people, can offer.

It's tragic for all concerned, it really is - but finger-pointing and comparisons with birth children and blame games don't help.

[youareallbonkers]

Surely if you adopt a child it is as though you gave birth to the child? Would people do this to their "own" children?

[Goldmandra]

Just wondered if the OP would like to move this to another topic?

Please don't. I think people need educating about this.

Surely if you adopt a child it is as though you gave birth to the child? Would people do this to their "own" children?

A perfect example of someone who needs educating.

[Lilka]

Oh my life
RTFT?

It is not the same situation as with birth children, who don't suffer the same traumas if you parent them lovingly from birth, and if people were for some reason in the same situation with their BC, it would have the same outcome. Birth parents do place their children in care.

[bluejanuary]

Yes, birth parents can and do put their children into care if the behaviour is extreme enough.

"It is as though you gave birth to the child" - yes, and no.

Yes, because the love is there, the commitment is there. Indeed, many birth parents who have one, two, three children would never be approved for adoption.

No, because they didn't give birth to the child and as a result there is a chunk of time that is unaccounted for. There are months and years where the child may have been subjected to neglect and we are not talking about not getting Christmas presents or similar but living in filth and squalor. Frequent, possibly multiple, house moves. Frequent, possibly multiple, "dads" - who may have done their own damage. Physical abuse - possible - sexual abuse - possible - emotional abuse - almost certain.

Does this happen in birth families? Yes, of course: and it causes damage, significant damage. Do children who go "off the rails" end up being put into the care system? Sometimes they do, yes.

It is all very sad but let's not pretend the only difference between adoption and birth children is labour.

[LIZS]

I'm not sure it was ever significantly more teen pregnancies rather than neglect or abandonment. My parents were foster parents in 70s and it was a very varied range of circumstances that brought children into their care, some of whom we're adopted, others returned to birth families, some into care. Ironically it is because attitudes have changed towards reconciliation where possible that longer term damage is done. However if a child has sn or behavioural difficulties they may simply be more difficult to place successfully.