To think that unless caused by an underlying health condition, obesity..

[GraysAnalogy]

should not be classed as a disability?

Recent story about a childminder being sacked as he was too overweight to do his job properly. He took this to court for unfair dismissal and it is being argued that his obesity could be classed as a disability.

There has been no ruling yet.

In your opinion, should it?

Maybe a semi colon is less likely to result in obesity than a regular colon

Not considering self-inflicted obesity as a disability isn't that much to do with worthiness as such.

I just don't think a physical state that is entirely within a person's power to change is a genuine disability.

A paraplegic cannot learn how to walk, nor a deaf person be able to hear if they concentrate hard enough (for ex)

An obese person absolutely can lose weight if they "want" to enough. In physical terms, it is entirely reversible.

what about someone who does a dangerous sport and makes an irresponsible decision which leaves them in a wheelchair.They are responsible for their own disability

But being in a wheelchair cannot be reversed.

Maybe a semi colon is less likely to result in obesity than a regular colon

Comments like that are so helpful to the conversation, thankyou

I take meds that cause weight gain. I've controlled it by eating far less than I would normally, around 1000 cals a day. I'm hungry all the time. It's hard but worth it, though I realise for some even this would not work

I think when people get to a certain weight it is impossible to just lose weight without a hell of a lot of intensive support so that's not terribly accurate saucy.

I do smile at all the cliches used regarding obesity
'I understand if it's a medical condition'
'Eat less move more'
'Just stop eating when you're full'
'If you fancy a cake have an apple instead'
Any more?

I once worked with a 32 stone woman who couldn't do her job safely - she couldn't even fit into the passenger seat of a car as she squished over the handbrake.

I don't think obesity is a disability, but not sure, really.

YANBU. But you wont get much sympathy around these parts, one suspects.
Obv there are medical conditions that cause obesity. But, most - actually all - the fat people i have known have eaten a lot and not done any exercise. I cant actually believe that we are still having this ridiculous discussion in 2014.

Oh, it's another one of these.

I'm guessing a lot of the causes you mention would be difficult to prove as humans are so variable. Thinking of thyroid disorders, people can have the same blood levels yet one may be symptomatic and another fine. Blood levels of some things vary from hour to hour so I would imagine your ideas would be unworkable in practice even if there is a physical cause. Psychological causes would be even more difficult to quantify

Everyone who is obese has a reason for ending up that way, it is not something anybody would choose to be in ideal circumstances.

And I think it's dangerous and damaging to say that it's impossible for morbidly obese people to lose weight without intervention.

Fucking hard? Without a doubt. Impossible? Quite simply, no.

I think the rules for obese fat people should be the same as for drunks. I have seen fat people order massive meals in restaurants and if you compare it to a drunk the bar staff would not be able to serve them. Restaurants should be told to only serve fat people small meals. It is easy to lose weight, do literally nothing and you will lose weight, eat nothing for a few days and you will lose weight. I realised I was putting on weight so stated exercising daily and reduced form a size 10 to a size 8. Why should fat people expect to be treated differently, it is a simple matter of eat less, move more

Thanks, I know what a semicolon is.

So this:
enpoid I understand your point and yes, it would be extremely difficult in distinguishing the two which is why it would be all or nothing; obesity is either a disability or not. Full stop, whatever the cause.

doesn't contradict this:
[Am I being unreasonable] to think that unless caused by an underlying health condition, obesity should not be classed as a disability?

(emphasis added) because of the semicolon?

Someone eating a huge meal only harms the person doing it, not like a drunk. That's a ridiculous comparison really

joanne1947 yeah and whilst they are at it they could force skinny people to eat more

(wow some people should not be allowed on the internet)

Yes I agree those who smoke, drink and take drugs hurt others, those who overeat hurt themselves.

Oh jesus christ enpoid you're failing to understand my point there?

Let me re-word it for you without the semi colon

'It would be extremely difficult in distinguishing the two, which is why it would be all or nothing, they'd say obesity is either a disability or not'

That is what I think it would have to be like to be fair. My personal belief is that it shouldn't be unless due to an underlying health condition.

Yay! Another 'fuck all the fat bastards' thread; we haven't had one for a few hours!

Please, please, please OP - start one about filthy, dirty, stinking bastard smokers too.

The ruling of the European Court doesn't in my view set any new precedent. Obesity per se is not a characteristic protected by discrimination law. But if, as a result of obesity or anything else, a person has symptoms which impact on their ability to carry out the activities of normal living, they may be disabled. There are already UK cases where the precise medical cause of a person's symptoms cannot be determined, but they have nevertheless been found to be disabled. Also the fact that a person's condition could be said to be partially self - inflicted isn't in itself a reason to say it's not a disability - a good example, as someone up thread mentioned, is emphysema caused by smoking.

Also, having a disability doesn't mean you can never be dismissed. Unless you are dismissed purely because you have a particular disability (and not because of a reason connected to it such as prolonged absence from work, for example), it is open to your employer to justify your dismissal. Even if your dismissal was for a reason connected to your disability, if that reason was e.g. that you couldn't do your job even after your employer had made reasonable adjustments, it is very unlikely that you would be able to challenge it.

So your personal belief is that the courts should do something you acknowledge to be unfair?

This topic has shown me that discussion centred around obesity can never be productive. Far too many people become emotional and get their backs up.

Like I said, I'm overweight. 13 stone, 5'4. I'm dont have any disease or disorder to blame. I have no-one to blame but myself.

But it seems I'm in the minority and the rest are all victims and it's completely wrong to expect people to be able to have responsibility over their weight. Because of this I must be saying 'fuck the fat bastards' as was so eloquently put.

enpoid I'm not sure you're reading what I'm putting are you?

The courts would have to do an all or nothing - obesity would either be a disability or not whether due to underlying conditions or not.

My personal belief is that they should only be classed as disabled if there's an underlying condition.

I've spelt it out as much as I can, if you don't get it now then please just re-read my posts.

I know people with thyroid issues that battle every day with weight issues. They are not obese because they stick to a special diet and exercise regime.

If you want to take care of yourself (and that includes getting therapy for food addiction), you will. If you don't, you won't.

I have nothing against obese people, but I don't have sympathy for them. They've created their own problem the same way any addict has. Addiction is not a disability. It is an addiction and needs to be treated as such.

That's a good point about addiction Bulbasaur I didn't think of that.

No, I'm afraid im a bit dense and still don't understand.

The courts would have to do an all or nothing - obesity would either be a disability or not whether due to underlying conditions or not.

This, fine, fair enough.

My personal belief is that they should only be classed as disabled if there's an underlying condition.

Classed by who? By the courts? Or in the court of public opinion? Or just by you? I can't tell you how people should be classed in your own head. But saying "should be classed" sounds like you're arguing for other people to adopt this unfair position which you acknowledge is unfair.