Builder problems

[slithytove]

Reposted for traffic

Lots of issues but I'll try to keep it short.

New kitchen installed due to finish 21 November.

Wasn't. Still needed snagging (damaged door, missing handle, hole in outside wall), painting, and splashback installing.

Many, many emails got most of this done. He became difficult to get hold of. Hole has not been fixed. Splashbacks were done today.

I wasn't there for the splashback installation. They are vile. Dark grey in a cream and brown kitchen. I emailed to complain and mentioned my other issues too.

He called, and said the job is complete and high standard. He said the hole in the wall is my issue to fix at my cost, as it is because of a waste disposal installation which was not on the original quote. It was however on the final quote.

He says the splashbacks are what we ordered. We ordered frosted. Sadly this was done verbally.

He while on the phone threatened to come round my house to discuss it.

I have still to pay over £1k and he wants it within 7 days. I said he could have until end of jan to make good the issues (replace splashback and repair hole) or I would get someone else to do it and deduct the cost from what I owe him.

Can I do this?
Can he take me to court?
What should I do? I've got 2 kids under 2 and am on maternity leave so at home a lot, this has scared and upset me.

I'm going to ask trading standards as well, but any advice would be so appreciated. Thanks in advance.

He is likely to withhold the gas safety certificate(s) as from his side they are his only remaining leverage, and in a dispute he is entitled to do so pending resolution. I would certainly not be handing over cash without receiving those before hand, as he has demonstrated that he is not honourable, and may not provide them once you cough up the cash.

If you have an e-mail chain establishing intent to supply goods and services for an agreed sum of money, and neither the sum of money nor the scope of works have changed, then the situation comes down to interpretation. It is not reasonable for any builder to expect a homeowner to accept a hole in their wall as not being covered without neither informing the homeowner that that hole would be there, nor telling her that is was excluded from the quote.

From what I can gather, the plumber should have made the relevant notifications and the certs should be sent straight to me, but it can take up to 30 days. So that would be around Christmas Day. I'm hoping this has happened as the plumber was a subcontractor.

I do agree with your last points elephant, and I have stayed completely calm and professional throughout this - bar when I hung up on him when he shouted at me.

I've emailed the gas safety people to see if the plumber has made the relevant notifications. Either way it is his responsibility. If I need to get an independent check, I will, and will deduct that cost off the balance owed as well.

Sounds like you're well on top of this, slithy. Keep it professional and unemotional and build a case with documents and e-mail history. If you don't need it, no harm done, but if you do, you don't want a crashed computer to kill your evidence of agreements between both parties.

You were right, he has my cert.

His wife has been in touch today offering to post the cert and correct my 2 problems at no extra cost, if I make immediate payment afterwards.

I'm nervous but think I should go for it?
Also. How long can I give it to make payment just in case of any immediate issues. Would waiting 7 working days be unreasonable?

Really hope nothings ever goes wrong with this kitchen, other than the appliances, all guarantees are with this bloke!

Responding thanking her for her communications and saying that you would like the defects listed below (make a list) rectified, and that you would like the certificates, and that if those works are carried out you will make payment within 7 working days is perfectly reasonable.

You have a right to inspect the works prior to making payment, and it sounds as though his wife is far more level headed than her husband.

Really hope nothings ever goes wrong with this kitchen, other than the appliances, all guarantees are with this bloke! It is a learning experience, one I hope doesn't bite you too harshly. You were brave to step outside of the buy an IKEA/B&Q fitted kitchen paradigm in the first place, so well done you.

He has a family company and great reviews. I'm surprised that using a kitchen company is out of the norm tbh. Oh well, I love it at least.

Now debating the wisdom of an honest review on the tradeperson website where I posted the job.

OP can I ask what region you are in?
I'm wondering if it's the same family firm I'm struggling with!

God, he sounds like the lazy, vile, rude etc etc kitchen fitter I had in Sep.
I don't suppose he works for himself and has an M at the beginning of the company name (also the town name) and finishes in Kitchens?

Oh, just seen he has a wife, mine had an ex wife and I could see why.

North west, pm me if you like. His first name begins with R.

Not same as yours LL, sorry you had a shitty experience too though. Why does the profession attract twats? His son is lovely but will inevitably go the same way.

Incidentally I've used his painter (subcontractor) for another job and he has NOTHING good to say about the kitchen man. Wish I'd known.

I would forgo the 'honest review' online if I were you. Other than a little self-satisfaction, it will do you no favours and is unlikely to help others either. Resolving the issues, clearing the deck and walking away is the best thing, and if you need a revisit in the future to resolve some latent defect or other, he is far more likely to be amenable to a woman who paid her bills with no hard feeling, than one who posted an 'honest' review of his attitude and workmanship online.

Builders have poor memories when it comes to who does and does not find fault with their work. Once they've been paid everyone is friends again. That is the way the game is played. Be content with that once the defects have been made good because you may need him out in the future to deal with something you are not yet aware so.

Just my 2c.

Thing is he was so aggressive on the phone, I don't think he'll help me anyway. It wasn't really for self satisfaction, more to prevent others suffering. He has had another bad review in the last fortnight which i find interesting.

Bear in mind I called the police he frightened me so.

I will hold off for a month and see how I feel. Maybe wait for the after care and see how it is.

Really do appreciate your views btw

elephantspoo - if the builder is filling a hole and replacing a splashback, completion of which will be visible immediately, why -on earth- wind them up and ask them to wait 7 days for payment, and take an imperious tone in email?

Slithy, I had said choose your battles before, not that you were a bad customer. This was because the chap had already become nasty on the phone (you have called the police) and it would be traumatic for your DC if he became nasty in person. Or maybe I am just a bit of a softy. I also remember having young DC and I wouldn't have wanted time away or this sort of thing affecting the atmosphere in house as babies pick up on tension. Again, I am probably a softy.

It might be fair for you to make sure and double sure you name the exact splashback you want by email to avoid more misery. I have had a lot of experience of development work and I can see things from both sides of the coin in relation to responsibility (the nastiness is a different issue). I know a builder who has taken non-paying customers to court over these types of issues and has won time and time over. The court has sometimes re-valued work quantum meruit to the benefit of the contractor in fact.

Best of luck.

There is no tension in the house. Why would there be? I'm conducting everything by email in my child free moments. Plus dealing with this blokes wife is all very civil.

Completion will be visible immediately. Certificates will take a few days to post, cement in hole to dry and not crack, especially in this frosty weather. Why on earth would I pay the same day?

They have now said that removing the splash could damage the plaster and paint underneath which they aren't prepared to redo, so have deducted the cost from my final invoice instead. Not happy but not willing to risk the damage to the wall.

I really can't see them wanting to go to court over 2 jobs amounting to less than £200. Equally, waiting 7 days for payment barely gives them enough time to file a claim.

Bear in mind this bloke kept me waiting for 3 weeks to finish the job despite having most of the money.

momieplum - payment is 7 days is perfectly reasonable and standard in domestic small works. I very much doubt you, or anyone, would be able to tell immediately upon completion of the works whether the wall had been stuffed with newspaper and skimmed with plaster, or the adhesive holding the splash back had been applied evenly and cured correctly. If you can, you are a better person than I. I cut my teeth selling kitchens in the 90s. There are more ways to cut corners than there are days in a year, and the evidence this far is that the builders reputation for sound honest work is in question.

Now, if you concerned for OPs physical safety, that is entirely another matter, and one OP seems to have judges as being more of the verbal bravado type. But if that were of a real concern, then dealing with wifey in writing beforehand setting out terms establishes both the ground rules and the builders likely response, and if a physical threat is a real possibility, then the builder should not be returning to the job whatsoever.

Just my 2c.

If you have a glass splash back and you want a change in the future, you could always over skin it in stainless steel, brushed or polished. Works well with a white kitchen and a dark worktop in particular, but I don't know what you have. I'm sure there are options out there.

Oak kitchen and dark worktop. What's over skinning? All handles, shelves, taps etc are brushed steel so that would be nice. Will look into it.

Incidentally it's not the threatening bloke coming back, it's his son. Scheduled for a time when DH will be here, who will be watching like a hawk.

I think I am going to quit while ahead/not ahead on this one! I was trying to help and obviously didn't. You both are happy with your approaches and will meet all your problems in future head on too! Anyway, let's live and let live and respect each other's different opinions.

There are more ways to cut corners than there are days in a year,

You've scared me now! I hope this is the end of my troubles. Kitchen seems great so far.

I hope I haven't shown disrespect Monie? I think I've approached this well as I have more or less achieved the desired result, all through pleasant emails.

I've not wound anyone up, nor been imperious.

Not something for you to think about right now. Some kitchens have a splash back, say 6" high or so, either set in and flush with the plaster above! or sitting forward slightly by the depth of the material (the thickness of the glass).

You can press a thin skin of stainless steel sheet, 0.7mm thick, the same height as the splashback and with a little return edge on the top, and bond it over the top of the existing splashback. There would be a thin joint where the new splashback skin butted up against eachother on any lengths more than 3m, but other than that, it would give you a nice professional finish. It'd all come down to the expertise of the tradesman you approached to do the job.

For the time being I'd live with the splashback you have, at least get some wear and tear out of it and see if it grows on you. It doesn't sound too bad. Just letting you know there are other options for the future.