To complain about this GP? Long, don't want to drip feed.

[OriginalGreenGiant]

Ds1 (6) has had a minor sore throat for a few days but yesterday had woken up crying in pain, couldn't swallow, yawn or talk. I had a look and his tonsils were huge, felt his glands in his neck and they were like hard round marbles and he went 'ow' when I touched them. Felt a bit warm but no actual temperature at that point. So I managed to get a morning appointment in open surgery time and took him to see GP.

We waited over an hour for an appointment, in which time I could feel and see ds's temperature going up. He was tired and a bit lethargic and you could feel the heat radiating off him. So I stripped his top off and put him next to the window.

Anyway...in we went. The GP didn't look at ds at all when we entered, just maintained eye contact with me and asked his symptoms, then picked up the thing (light...magnifier?) and looked in ds's ears and throat. It's hard to explain how 'off' this seemed in words, but IMO you can tell quite a bit from how a child looks, so it seemed very odd that she didn't even look at him, let alone ask him anything.

So, she pronounced his throat red and ears fine. She then ran her hands lightly over his neck and said 'glands are normal' and took his temperature (in the ear) and declared it 36.8 and fine. Then asked me what treatment i was hoping for from then on .

At this point I could feel the warmth still radiating from ds so asked if she could test his temperature again. She gave me an indulgent smile and did...looked surprised and a bit shamefaced and went 'Oh it's actually 39! Sorry!'

I asked her about his glands and said to me they seemed very pronounced and painful. She felt them again a bit more firmly, ds1 visibly winced but she again said they were completely normal.

She then said that she understood I was probably hoping for antibiotics, but...and gave me a two minute lecture about the differences between viral and bacterial. I tried to politely interrupt (I'm not an idiot, I know the difference and had given no indication I was 'looking for' anti b's) but she was on a roll with her speech so on she went.

She then turned to her computer and brought up google, saying she would check if antibiotics were needed. She googled 'fever pain score', clicked on the first result and filled in a form. She said to me 'You can actually do this from home, to see if anti b's are necessary but obviously I don't mind completing it for you'. Well gee, thanks

She turned to ds (and just to point out, this was the first time in over 5 minutes in the room that she had looked ds in the face or spoken to him) and asked him 'So, would you say your throat pain is moderate or severe?'. Ds is a bright 6 year old but fgs, he's 6. He stared at her, obviously not understanding so she repeated it to him word for word. So I answered that it had seemed severe.

Anyway, this form came up with the result that antib's were recommended. So she completed a prescription after poring through some text book for a full two minutes to check dosage. And out we went.

It all just seemed so wrong. Other than the moderate/severe question, she didn't actually look at ds or speak to him/question him at ALL. I'm not a Doctor, but considering the painful marbles that are protruding from ds1's neck, I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be described as 'normal'. Plus add in the temperature mistake, and google telling her whether to prescribe or not.

I said to dh I feel like complaining. I know that Doctors are probably sick of people traipsing in kids with a sniffle at the moment, but ds clearly had more than that and I don't feel that she really examined or diagnosed him at all.

Dh thinks I'm overreacting. He is of the 'Aw come on, she's probably newly qualified or having a bad day' opinion...tbh I couldn't give a fuck and neither of those warrant not doing your job properly IMO.

AIBU?

[Toggo]

OP YANBU! I would complain.

GPs are humans and can make mistakes. However, they should not patronise patients or make them feel like time wasters as this makes people avoid going to the doctor's and this puts lives at risk.

Yes, in most cases the symptoms you have described are trivial and go away by themselves ...but sometimes they don't and as a parent I would not want to risk my child's health by getting it wrong.

[Ohfourfoxache]

Agree with Toggo - especially as the child in question is 6.

16 would be another matter, but kids and the elderly can go downhill so, so quickly. It's not worth the risk.

[raltheraffe]

I was not alleging anyone was troll hunting. The moderator put up a link to the talk guidelines, and so I read them, having never read them before and one rule is no trollhunting but I do not know what that means.

[Ohfourfoxache]

Ah, gotcha!

Troll hunting is suggesting that a thread is not true/ made up. If someone suspects that a poster is not genuine then the thread should be reported to MNHQ.

[thenightsky]

The government and press have done a great job and made the NHS ripe to be raped by its private cronies

Exactly this.

[Idiotdh]

Well she wasn't incompetent re taking his temperature was she? First time normal second time high...you can only read what the thermometer says dont be so judgmental.

I have never heard anything so ridiculous as to complain...About what? She didn't do anything wrong. Sore throats can be viral or bacterial ...it's just a judgement call if the throat just looks red probably wouldn't give ABX if lots of pus there probably would.

[ZeViteVitchofCwismas]

Perhaps you were the 20th sore throat that had insisted they had to be seen that day, perhaps she had just had enough


I am staggered by this post, are you actually a doctor? Maybe your in the wrong job? It is a job, you get paid very well and its a people facing job.

Your attitude stinks. Its that sort of attitude that has us creeping around scared to go to our doctor for fear of making a fuss

[ZeViteVitchofCwismas]

Ohfourfoxache Fri 12-Dec-14 20:53:30

totally agree with every word, and when I have complained its very much to make things better not to have a personal go ..

[Celticlass2]

zevite This was one of the posts that really shocked me too. I'm really hoping that poster was not a doctor.!
I can't believe that's when posts like this are challenged we are accused of personal attacks.

[Lambstales]

They have already done this with Worthing A&E. All bones are now private company.

[macdoodle]

Wow I go off to play on the wii with my DC before bed, and do bedtime and some tidying up and come back to WW3.
I see lots of deleted posts and can only guess the usual GP bashers have been about.
So to clarify!
I was trying to give an insight into the other side, trying to perhaps explain the pressure that may have led to the situation in the OP.
I didnt attack anyone personally or generally, nor did I "attack" patients, I did however reiterate as I have before, that IMO (and many other medics) the inability of the population to self manage simple illnesses or even any concerns, has become staggering. Quite why this observation causes such ire is beyond me.
As to the personal attacks on me, and my professionalism, meh. Faced it before on here, in person, in the press every day, most experienced medics will be used to it.
As I have said before, I absolutely love my job, I love what I do, I am a popular and well liked GP. I am very straight talking, and the vast majority of patients appreciate that. I am clear and to the point, but I do not suffer inappropriate demands or threatening behaviour, and nor should anyone.
This is borne out by my recent patient and colleague questionnaire given to a random group of patients, who without exception rated me excellent or outstanding with no concerns. If a little rant and attempt to explain the pressures of GP, makes me unprofessional and bringing the profession into disrepute then I despair I really do.
Redtoothbrush, by even mentioning that and the GMC, I find you very passive aggressive and threatening, as you will well know the absolute terror the threat of being at the receiving end of a GMC witch hunt would be to a medic. I would point out that despite being qualified for 20 years and a GP partner for 12, I have never had a GMC complaint, only one formal complaint in the last 10 years, and one coroners court appearance in which I was fully exonerated and in fact the very hard nosed coroner praised my actions as above and beyond.
Many thanks to those that understood what I was trying to say, but I wont engage again, I think the risk of one of the GP bashers with a big chip on their shoulders, trying to make a complaint too high and too risky, as the GMC most certainly is anti GP at the moment.

[RedToothBrush]

I thought the site guidelines were about the benefit of posters and supporting them as parents.

Therefore anything that might discourage someone from seeing a GP with their child is a big no no. Even if it might waste the GPs time.

But there you go.

[Ohfourfoxache]

ZeVite

Fwiw I love complaints - it means that if they are dealt with/acted upon then it reduces the chance of a serious incident report landing on my desk. When that happens you know that a patient has been harmed

[macdoodle]

Really you dont think advice re management of simple illnesses and linking to sites with advice is acceptable Why ever not??

[TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet]

@RedToothBrush

I thought the site guidelines were about the benefit of posters and supporting them as parents.

Therefore anything that might discourage someone from seeing a GP with their child is a big no no. Even if it might waste the GPs time.

But there you go.

We're here to make lives easier
Attacking people PERSONALLY - in their professional capacity or otherwise does not do this.
Hope this is clear.

[RedToothBrush]

No not really. Not if it makes people feel uneasy in anyway about seeing their GP.

[Idiotdh]

It's a mismatch between what the Dr is concerned about and what the patient thinks is important.
Dr was probably able to decide within two minutes of start of consultation that she is not worried about this child in a medical sense and the illness is fairly minor. She may know that a sick patient is waiting to see her ASAP. She tries to explain things are fine and its probably a viral sore throat but also tries to be thorough.
She could have explained it all better but sounds like she rushed it a bit. So not an ideal consultation but not one which resulted in any harm or any incompetence.

Re comparison with other jobs.... If you had a ten minute consultation with a lawyer costing 80 pounds per hour, then when it got to ten minutes he said the meeting was to be terminated, would you then ask another ten questions, question his qualifications and advice and be rude? No, but a lot of NHS patients and patient' s families do... Expectations have gone completely over the top and patients and families can be very rude and verbally abusive towards doctors and nurses and its largely the Press to blame as well as the govt for ruining the system and undermining doctors in the public eye.
I hate DCameron and what he has done to the NHS ..ironically, when ( not if ) it becomes private /a paying system, demands will be much less because Drs workload will be optional..like dentists, they would be treating only some people rather than the entire population.

[Ohfourfoxache]

Sadly it pre-dates Cameron, Idiotdh.

It all started with Labour's introduction of targets, then worsened for GPs when the GP contract was changed (2005? 2006? I can't remember - it was about that time).

There was a mahoosive hoo-har about how much GPs were getting, how patients should demand more, how GPs didn't work hard enough. Divide and conquer. It build resentment between primary, secondary and tertiary care. Nothing has been the same since, and patients have got increasingly desperate to obtain a good service. GPs are the ones that see the most patients (as opposed to smaller groups repeatedly seeing specialists) - so they (AND their staff) bear the brunt of it.

That's just my opinion though. Having worked through primary, secondary and tertiary I can only speak as I find.

That's not to say that the Conservatives are any better - they are all the same and the NHS has been repeatedly fucked over.

[YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually]

The child in question here, had a "minor sore throat" until the appointment day, incidentally made in the morning and seen that same day. His symptoms on that morning were a painful sore throat and swollen glands. By OP's own post, he did not have a temperature until he was in the waiting room. And a temp isn't a reason to see a GP, unless it's very very high or cannot be brought down by usual methods in normal time frames.

I would not have consulted a GP for my DC in these circumstances. It sounds like a minor, routine illness which a parent should know how to manage.

I'd love to hear the GPs version of this appointment!

[Ohfourfoxache]

Can I just point out that today is Friday - if it got worse over the weekend and, God forbid, they ended up in MIU or A&E, she would have been criticised for not seeing her GP

Divide and conquer. Simples.

[YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually]

Ohfourfoxache, I don't mean this snippily as it's a genuine question, would you therefore take your DC to the GP with a minor routine illness if it occurred on a Friday, just in case it worsened over the weekend?

Surely if it's a minor illness, it doesn't need treating, unless it worsens?

[wobblyweebles]

The fact that a GP on here is defending the OP's GP's behaviour just confims to me that the NHS is failing. I have no idea why people defend it.