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AIBU?

To complain about this GP? Long, don't want to drip feed.

457 replies

OriginalGreenGiant · 12/12/2014 15:31

Ds1 (6) has had a minor sore throat for a few days but yesterday had woken up crying in pain, couldn't swallow, yawn or talk. I had a look and his tonsils were huge, felt his glands in his neck and they were like hard round marbles and he went 'ow' when I touched them. Felt a bit warm but no actual temperature at that point. So I managed to get a morning appointment in open surgery time and took him to see GP.

We waited over an hour for an appointment, in which time I could feel and see ds's temperature going up. He was tired and a bit lethargic and you could feel the heat radiating off him. So I stripped his top off and put him next to the window.

Anyway...in we went. The GP didn't look at ds at all when we entered, just maintained eye contact with me and asked his symptoms, then picked up the thing (light...magnifier?) and looked in ds's ears and throat. It's hard to explain how 'off' this seemed in words, but IMO you can tell quite a bit from how a child looks, so it seemed very odd that she didn't even look at him, let alone ask him anything.

So, she pronounced his throat red and ears fine. She then ran her hands lightly over his neck and said 'glands are normal' and took his temperature (in the ear) and declared it 36.8 and fine. Then asked me what treatment i was hoping for from then on Hmm .

At this point I could feel the warmth still radiating from ds so asked if she could test his temperature again. She gave me an indulgent smile and did...looked surprised and a bit shamefaced and went 'Oh it's actually 39! Sorry!'

I asked her about his glands and said to me they seemed very pronounced and painful. She felt them again a bit more firmly, ds1 visibly winced but she again said they were completely normal.

She then said that she understood I was probably hoping for antibiotics, but...and gave me a two minute lecture about the differences between viral and bacterial. I tried to politely interrupt (I'm not an idiot, I know the difference and had given no indication I was 'looking for' anti b's) but she was on a roll with her speech so on she went.

She then turned to her computer and brought up google, saying she would check if antibiotics were needed. She googled 'fever pain score', clicked on the first result and filled in a form. She said to me 'You can actually do this from home, to see if anti b's are necessary but obviously I don't mind completing it for you'. Well gee, thanks Hmm

She turned to ds (and just to point out, this was the first time in over 5 minutes in the room that she had looked ds in the face or spoken to him) and asked him 'So, would you say your throat pain is moderate or severe?'. Ds is a bright 6 year old but fgs, he's 6. He stared at her, obviously not understanding so she repeated it to him word for word. So I answered that it had seemed severe.

Anyway, this form came up with the result that antib's were recommended. So she completed a prescription after poring through some text book for a full two minutes to check dosage. And out we went.

It all just seemed so wrong. Other than the moderate/severe question, she didn't actually look at ds or speak to him/question him at ALL. I'm not a Doctor, but considering the painful marbles that are protruding from ds1's neck, I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be described as 'normal'. Plus add in the temperature mistake, and google telling her whether to prescribe or not.

I said to dh I feel like complaining. I know that Doctors are probably sick of people traipsing in kids with a sniffle at the moment, but ds clearly had more than that and I don't feel that she really examined or diagnosed him at all.

Dh thinks I'm overreacting. He is of the 'Aw come on, she's probably newly qualified or having a bad day' opinion...tbh I couldn't give a fuck and neither of those warrant not doing your job properly IMO.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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Pastperfect · 12/12/2014 17:16

In the OPs shoes I would hope that complaining would mean the GP improved in her ability to interact with patients in future.

If you are in a "client" facing role you need to be able to deal with your clients properly. If you can't you're in the wrong job

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Mrsmorton · 12/12/2014 17:23

Fwiw, I always look up childrens doses in the BNF. Antibiotic recommendations have recently changed and Id rather not rely on my memory and maths. Surely that's not unreasonable...

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Celticlass2 · 12/12/2014 17:23

OP sounds like you didn't have a very pleasant experience. I hope your DS feels better soon.

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PacificDogwood · 12/12/2014 17:26

As is usual the case with complaints the issue is much more with communication rather than competence - there's nothing wrong (and is infact encouraged) to use standardised assessment forms, thermometers regularly give different readings, and the whole consultation could have ended happier if communication had been less dysfunctional.

Problem is doctors are people and they don't always manage to do/say/perform everything perfectly, but it is expected that they do.
Like I said, I don't have the answer.
A bit of mutual respect I suppose helps.

And I agree, unless you've worked on the shop floor in primary care or A+E it is very hard to convey what the stresses are and how close to total collapse the system is. The government is doing a great job of pitching A+E against GPs and both of them against secondary care Hmm - divide and conquer.
The NHS will come to an end and we will all only miss what we had when it's gone.
Sorry, I degress - you have every right to complain, so why not sleep on it and make a decision in the morning?

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hiddenhome · 12/12/2014 17:30

They need to start charging for GP consultations.

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beginnerrunner · 12/12/2014 17:35

Honestly you are going to complain? It's no wonder GPs are overstretched, stressed and surgeries can't recruit. I wouldn't even consider going to the docs for a sore throat and a temperature either. Bodies are designed to get ill and recover themselves for simple illnesses like these.

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Ohfourfoxache · 12/12/2014 17:39

beginner firstly the GP would not have prescribed antibiotics if they were not needed. She checked and they were. This was not just a bog standard sore throat - and he's 6 fgs. Secondly what's better - for the op to complain locally, for a problem to be resolved and for the GP to reflect on the consultation, or for another patient to have a bad experience and have the complaint plastered on NHS Choices where it is in the public domain?

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GenerationX2 · 12/12/2014 17:42

OP I'm sorry that your DS is not well, and it does sound like you had a crap experience with the GP - surely its like any other customer facing profession - your bad day should not impact the service you give to your customers - and you and your DS were the GP's customer.

I'm not in the UK - but a sore throat and symptoms you describe would be taken seriously by the Dr's here, as it could be Strep Throat which can cause all sorts of complications and there is a simple test they can do in the Dr's office to determine if it is Strep and if it is you need Antibiotics to treat it - do they not do that in the UK?

I hope your DS feels better soon - and for what it's worth I think a polite non emotional, fact based letter to the practice manager is the way to go.

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OhLittleBoreOfWhabylon · 12/12/2014 17:54

I think if the GP had explained to OP the way PacificDogwood did so clearly in her post of 1704 then OP would probably have gone away satisfied, reassured and with a clear plan of what to do and what to watch for.

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OhLittleBoreOfWhabylon · 12/12/2014 17:55

Also agree with everything in Pacific's last post.

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OriginalGreenGiant · 12/12/2014 18:02

Oh little bore - I agree. I 'hope' that the Doctor meant that as he clearly had some sort of infection his glands were 'normal' in that they were enlarged.

But the way she said 'normal' and 'fine' was as if she couldn't tell they were enlarged iyswim which is a bit concerning. In the past, when glands (mine/dc) are clearly swollen it's always been at least acknowledged by the GP as that ('Oh yes, there's obviously something going on' kind of way) and not as 'normal' iyswim?

OP posts:
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weebarra · 12/12/2014 18:03

I have a good friend who is a GP (my DF and FIL are also retired GPs) and she is scarily close to leaving the profession. She is compassionate and thorough and finds herself still in the surgery doing paperwork till 10pm. I'm sorry your DS isn't well, and I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of poor care (my stage 3 breast cancer was dismissed by 3 GPs because I was a breastfeeding 36 year old).
I just think a lot of the issues are not of the GPs making.

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Ohfourfoxache · 12/12/2014 18:05

Pacific it is so refreshing to see a poster clearly state what the problems are with the NHS (primary vs emergency vs secondary). Sorry if that sounds completely condescending - it's not meant to - but it's so nice to know someone else "gets it".

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ThePinkOcelot · 12/12/2014 18:11

Well she sounded rubbish to me. We could all be GPs if all it takes is looking symptoms up on Google.

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macdoodle · 12/12/2014 18:35

Ya think?? And therein lies the problem Hmm Confused
Feel free to come and work my on call day on tues ocelot. I have google, gpnotebook, BNF and a number of medical sites saved on my favourites, feel free to use them all.
I will also expect you to be able to -
(1) see anything up to 30 patients every 10minutes in the morning, work out which ones are self limiting minor illnesses (the majority), and explain to them why, how, that there is no treatment, and how they can self manage - all the time make sure you remain calm, polite, considerate and perfect (after all someone might complain about your attitude)
(2) in between those, make quite sure you do NOT miss those with serious pathology, the weight loss that might be lung cancer, the tears that might be a serious depression, the bloated lady who might have ovarian cancer, the anxious man who might be thyrotoxic
(3) make sure you spend enough time with the complex, elderly, multi co-morbids, you need to make sure their meds dont interact or cause side effects, or falls. You dont want to miss an early dementia because the government says we are crap at that too
(4) when you're done there, you can do my up to 10 tel call backs including results, make sure you know whether the reduced Hb is significant, what is causing the deranged LFT's. Reassure the worried well after "advice".
(5) you might have time to quickly do some urgent admin, the urgent letters/referrals that must go off today, the suspected breast cancer one, dont forget to ring the CMHT about the young lad with psychosis and distress you saw this morning, make sure they will see him soon
(6) nope not done yet, you need to read all the patient letters in docman, there might be 20 or so, about 25% will be asking/telling you to do/check/chase something, make sure you dont forget to do it, you can get sued and held culpable if you do. ooops almost forgot you havent done your results yet, maybe 30-40, I am the diabetic doc, so I need to make sure all their risk factors are controlled
(7) whew, done, no not quite. You have 2 house calls to do, one to the lovely gent you have known for years who is slowly dying from his incurable lung disease, he is short of breath and anxious, can you help, no not really, but you can chat and reassure, maybe hold his hand, talk to his wife, they will really appreciate it, shame you had to miss lunch but this is more important.
(8) on your way back for the afternoon surgery, just pop in and see the housebound elderly lady with exruciating back pain, you cant quite get her meds right without causing constipation, confusion, falls, but you will keep trying until you get it right. She really appreciates it to,
(9) right back in time for afternoon surgery - whew, nope no lunch or wee yet, but dont worry your lovely recptionists have taken pity and left a coffee and biscuit on your desk.
(10) off you go, afternoon surgery, a bit less now, only 15 or so, mostly prebooked so chrnic follow up and new problems. maybe some extra emergencies thrown in for good measure, maybe another sore throat or 2. Lucky you have google handy eh?
(11) right afternoon call backs done as well, are we done now, can we go home??
(12) dont be bloody daft, you have to finish your letters, you havent signed and checked the 150 scripts yet, keep going
(13) getting there, but wait, the PM has been trying to talk to you all day, about the QOF money, the building repairs, the trying to recruit a new dr, the underperfoming nurse. Too much now, you promise him some time on your half day tomorrow.
(14) Well just about done now, you didnt get round to any of the blue badge forms, or private insurance forms waiting to be done, and boy they are complaining now, theyve been waiting weeks.

You can go home to your kids now, youve done well, only 13hours straight, you did really well, thank goodness you had google, you would never have managed without it, after all, anyone can do my job as long as they have google cant they??
I hope you didnt make any mistakes, miss anything, kill anyone, and I must certainly hope you didnt annoy any one with your attitude. But never mind, you pay handsomely to your medical protection society in case of complaints, its only about £600/month for a part time GP. If its so easy to be a GP then I wonder why there arent more of us, we could certainly do with some more!

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macdoodle · 12/12/2014 18:38

I would never denigrate another's job, I appreciate my accountant, my solicitor, my plumber, my builder, my hairdresser. That is their job, I appreciate it and pay for it.
I would never be so disparaging to think I could do it from google.
When did we learn to hate and resent GP's so much?? The government and press have done a great job and made the NHS ripe to be raped by its private cronies.

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Mrsmorton · 12/12/2014 18:45

Another like from me. I've heard of GPs telephone triaging 60 patients a session. As well as actually seeing them. And then there's the notes because everyone wants to complain/sue, the notes have to be watertight to the detriment of the consultation.

Killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

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plantsitter · 12/12/2014 18:48

I'm sure GPs work as hard as many others.

Doesn't excuse a dismissive manner and using completely inappropriate language to a six year old.

And you know what? If you're a medical professional you know what is safe to be left. If you're not, you're not, and that's why you go and ask one. Especially when you're in charge of someone else's health - someone, like 6 yr old, who may not be all that good at describing their symptoms and whose symptoms, of course, you can't experience for yourself.

It's tragic the NHS is at breaking point but that is not the fault of a small boy with a sore throat, and giving him substandard care is not going to save it.

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Ohfourfoxache · 12/12/2014 18:48

Macdoodle's post shows exactly why there has been a huge reduction in the number of people going into General Practice.

Can I just say though that you missed off all the routine coding you have to do to prove that you've taken a patient's BP/offered smoking cessation advice/offered a flu jab/offered a smear or routine monitoring?

And the worrying after hours thinking you've missed something?

And the working from home after hours/at weekends just to keep on top of things?

And annual leave? Yep, that's not time off - it's another opportunity to catch up with paperwork.

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fusspot66 · 12/12/2014 18:51

Well said macdoodle.

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macdoodle · 12/12/2014 18:55

I dont see substandard care! I see a harassed GP fed up with the inability of people to self manage. If the OP's attitude on here is anything to go by, I may too have given her antibiotics just to get her out my room.
She says she didnt "want antibiotics" but everything she saod screams thats exactly what she wanted, and the GP certainly picked that up as well.
What exactly did the OP expect her to do about the temperature, funnily enough there is no sudden magic cure to bring the temp down that the GP could have done.
Maybe calpol, nurofen, cooling meaures would have helped. Antibiotics will take 24-48hrs to have any effect. The NICE traffic light system doesnt actually include temp as a criteria www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg160/resources/cg160-feverish-illness-in-children-support-for-education-and-learning-educational-resource-traffic-light-table2

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CaffeLatteIceCream · 12/12/2014 18:58

"Doesn't excuse a dismissive manner and using completely inappropriate language to a six year old"

Completely innapropriate? Do give over. And anyway, whenever any adult used unfamilar words to my DS when he was little, I stepped in because that's what I was there for. Why didn't you just "translate", OP? "Does it hurt just a bit or loads"?

And was your DS given syrup rather than pills? If yes, this is probably why the dosage was checked. I cannot take pills, so I am alsays prescribed syrup where possible...and every single GP & dentist has looked up the dose in a book first.

Your "complaints" are pretty minor. Your son was seen and given medication. Job done.

Find something else to whinge about.

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Idefix · 12/12/2014 19:00

Ohfour I wish it was true that abx were only ever prescribed because it was completely physically indicated :(
Sadly I have heard more than once of gps and np being put under pressure to prescribe with veiled threats of we will complain about you or go to a&e or will call oohs.
I have gone overtime on appts as I have explained why abx are not the answer to parents who are insistent that they are the only thing that works.
Yes to checking bnf for doses - good practice.

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Celticlass2 · 12/12/2014 19:02

Plantsitter I am completely with you* I'm finding some of the attitudes on here by those who are in the medical profession a bit scary, and pretty dismissive tbh.

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crumblebumblebee · 12/12/2014 19:09

I don't think the doctor is going to win any awards for bedside manner but I really think you are overreacting.

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