To complain about this GP? Long, don't want to drip feed.

[OriginalGreenGiant]

Ds1 (6) has had a minor sore throat for a few days but yesterday had woken up crying in pain, couldn't swallow, yawn or talk. I had a look and his tonsils were huge, felt his glands in his neck and they were like hard round marbles and he went 'ow' when I touched them. Felt a bit warm but no actual temperature at that point. So I managed to get a morning appointment in open surgery time and took him to see GP.

We waited over an hour for an appointment, in which time I could feel and see ds's temperature going up. He was tired and a bit lethargic and you could feel the heat radiating off him. So I stripped his top off and put him next to the window.

Anyway...in we went. The GP didn't look at ds at all when we entered, just maintained eye contact with me and asked his symptoms, then picked up the thing (light...magnifier?) and looked in ds's ears and throat. It's hard to explain how 'off' this seemed in words, but IMO you can tell quite a bit from how a child looks, so it seemed very odd that she didn't even look at him, let alone ask him anything.

So, she pronounced his throat red and ears fine. She then ran her hands lightly over his neck and said 'glands are normal' and took his temperature (in the ear) and declared it 36.8 and fine. Then asked me what treatment i was hoping for from then on .

At this point I could feel the warmth still radiating from ds so asked if she could test his temperature again. She gave me an indulgent smile and did...looked surprised and a bit shamefaced and went 'Oh it's actually 39! Sorry!'

I asked her about his glands and said to me they seemed very pronounced and painful. She felt them again a bit more firmly, ds1 visibly winced but she again said they were completely normal.

She then said that she understood I was probably hoping for antibiotics, but...and gave me a two minute lecture about the differences between viral and bacterial. I tried to politely interrupt (I'm not an idiot, I know the difference and had given no indication I was 'looking for' anti b's) but she was on a roll with her speech so on she went.

She then turned to her computer and brought up google, saying she would check if antibiotics were needed. She googled 'fever pain score', clicked on the first result and filled in a form. She said to me 'You can actually do this from home, to see if anti b's are necessary but obviously I don't mind completing it for you'. Well gee, thanks

She turned to ds (and just to point out, this was the first time in over 5 minutes in the room that she had looked ds in the face or spoken to him) and asked him 'So, would you say your throat pain is moderate or severe?'. Ds is a bright 6 year old but fgs, he's 6. He stared at her, obviously not understanding so she repeated it to him word for word. So I answered that it had seemed severe.

Anyway, this form came up with the result that antib's were recommended. So she completed a prescription after poring through some text book for a full two minutes to check dosage. And out we went.

It all just seemed so wrong. Other than the moderate/severe question, she didn't actually look at ds or speak to him/question him at ALL. I'm not a Doctor, but considering the painful marbles that are protruding from ds1's neck, I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be described as 'normal'. Plus add in the temperature mistake, and google telling her whether to prescribe or not.

I said to dh I feel like complaining. I know that Doctors are probably sick of people traipsing in kids with a sniffle at the moment, but ds clearly had more than that and I don't feel that she really examined or diagnosed him at all.

Dh thinks I'm overreacting. He is of the 'Aw come on, she's probably newly qualified or having a bad day' opinion...tbh I couldn't give a fuck and neither of those warrant not doing your job properly IMO.

AIBU?

[Alpacacino]

I'm actually really shocked by macdoodles posts...surely this workload and the stresses of it are not the fault of the patient?

Seeing lots of people with self-limiting minor conditions might be annoying, but can it be that bad?

If it's not possible to spent 300 minutes - 5 hours! - a day being friendly and understanding to patients who are polite and vulnerable, what are policewomen and -men supposed to say?!?

Bedside manner is so incredibly important.

[Playthegameout]

Op, with all due respect you're not a Dr, so you can't say if the GP's comment about your Ds's glands was wrong. From what you've said, she did examine him, then use a checklist to double check her diagnosis. She also checked the dosage. That seems pretty thourough. True she seemed a bit dismissive, and I agree the majority of 6 year olds would struggle with the language she used, but essentially your Ds was seen and treated, for free, by a medical professional. I hope he feels better soon.

[Mrsmorton]

Patients arent polite though! On the whole, a nice patient is an exception to the rule. It's all about rights and never responsibilities in primary healthcare, it really is. Patients can be horrible, obtuse, argumentative (nb different to inquisitive/interested) and threatening.

[Alpacacino]

And this argument - she should not have taken her child - goes absolutely nowhere. were you there? Did you see him? Are you a qualified doctor?!?! It's so presumptive!

What if she hadn't taken him, he'd gotten really bad and ended up in A&E. OP Would have been told "oooh, but you should have taken him to the doctor".

Aaargh!

And mentioning it to the GP during the appointment? Yes, let's start an argument when your child is unwell and miserable. Ridiculous!

[Oinkypig]

Any doctor or dentist who claims never to have prescribed antibiotics to get the patient out of the surgery is lying. I very rarely treat children so have to look drug doses up for kids, I check lots of prescriptions anyway maybe I should just guess? I can understand lots of the complaints the OP has about the communication but checking the drug dosage? Really? You are annoyed someone took the time to ensure they gave your child the right dose and type of medication?

[Ohfourfoxache]

And violent, MrsMorton, you forgot violent.

[festivehopeandfrolicks]

look people lay off macdoodle. really get a grip.so self righteous. I have a chronic life long Bastard of a condition.our gp receptionist knows my voice in the phone and I have to have regular bloods, go in quick with minor infections etc.I can't believe the number of times my poor gp has rung me eight nine o clock at night to update me /advise me about funny blood results etc. we get an amazing service n remember this when its gone and you're paying fifty quid a pop

[Alpacacino]

Mrsmorton A nice patient is an exception to a rule Parents aren't polite though ??????

So if I came to see you as a parent on behalf of my child, you would greet me with that attitude.

Shocking!!

[CaffeLatteIceCream]

I think your posts are a fucking disgrace, RedToothBrush. Calling someone you have never met "unprofessional".... in danger of "causing serious harm" is an appalling thing to do.

Not quite sure what your personal medical history has to do with macdoodle - bit I suspect that's where your spite is coming from.

[YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually]

Alpacacino, it is possible to raise concerns without having an argument you know, plenty of people do it.

[Alpacacino]

Yes Did you mean to be so rude?

[TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet]

ahem
peace, health and love people

[Mrsmorton]

RTFP alpacacino I never mentioned parents. Patients aren't polite. If it wasn't for patients, I'd probably be a dentist until I retire, as it is I'm desperately looking for a way out of it!

I had a complaint last weekend for discussing a case with my nurse "you can't discuss my wife's care with anyone..." I'm waiting to find out if he went straight to the GDC with that one. Fuck it I say, there are easier jobs out there!

[RedToothBrush]

Patients can be horrible, obtuse, argumentative (nb different to inquisitive/interested) and threatening.

Yes, and are MORE not less likely to be, if they are spoken to with poor bedside manner and a lack of respect.

[Mrsmorton]

Why would you threaten a HCP? Why would someone walk in and threaten violence (a criminal offence)? Genuinely interested redtoothbrush

[Mrsmorton]

Respect is a two way street don't forget.

[Alpacacino]

Oh dear - patients! Apologies.

Feeling a little more reassured then.

[Alpacacino]

Just saying, though: There must be a huge difference between being argumentative and threatening.

I'd be interested to learn where the line is drawn.

[XmasTimeMammariesandWine]

I am always amazed that people on MN often think they know better than GPs who have had years of medical training or think that Mumsnetters will have more idea about medical stuff than a GP.

[Mrsmorton]

We're getting off topic. GPs are under incredible and unfair pressure.

I'm off now before I get in trouble for expressing my opinion in public.

[XmasTimeMammariesandWine]

Also wondering why people are feeling the need to be quite so venomous to macdoodle

[TopazRocks]

Have read the whole thread with care - and, as a former HCP and now a professional patient/time waster, I can see this both ways.

What I don't understand though is how macdoodle managed not to pee for so many hours - and why couldn't she have nipped for a quick pee on her way in from the car park after her home visits? Her pelvic floor must be deeply impressive . Respect really does go both ways though.

[broccoliear]

celticlass surely the whole point of an anonymous forum is that it doesn't reflect anything on her. It's anonymous!

Of none of this is any individual patient's fault, and of course people should complain if they feel the care is not up to scratch. I just think that if you want respect, courtesy and the benefit of the doubt from your doctor, it's worth offering the same in return.

Also worth remembering that unlike 30 years ago when they had a degree of autonomy, GPs are now just a small cog in a big machine. THe standard of care you get from them reflects the entire organisation.

[pinkisthenewpink]

I don't get the impression that the op was going to the GP for antibiotics, but for some advice about the sudden worsening of her DS's symptoms. I think her reason for going was valid.

I think the GP's bedside manner left something to be desired. It sounded from the description like the GP had already decided that the op and her son were worried well very early on, and had decided that they were of the ilk that required antibiotics or would not be satisfied. I don't think the GP did herself any favours by stating that the glands were 'normal' - she should've clarified that they were a normal part of the immune response. The google....meh......in her clinical opinion antibiotics weren't necessary (of course without a swab you can't tell tell necessarily tell viral from bacterial but even if it is bacterial the body is most likely to clear it) so she might've been trying to prove a point assuming the dr google site would think antibiotics weren't necessary, and it would prove her point without angst.

I can see it from both pov I guess. The over-stretched GP who really cares about her patients, but who might not be having the best day, to the parent who just wants to make sure her child isn't going to go downhill fast and just wants a chat with someone, but without feeling like she's an idiot or about to lead to the end of the antibiotic era and the NHS in one fail swoop.

Instead of necessarily complaining about the GP, I guess I think the main problem here is with education of the public about what would be considered cause for concern and what wouldn't. I guess if I was going to make a complaint it would be along those lines....GP seemed dismissive, it would be helpful to have a checklist of things to watch for? Obviously I know this is quite a naive idealistic solution though....the spectre of medical negligence, ease of advertising (which should be government led I guess), consensus of opinion (in the uk prob not so much a prob, but in the states (insurance system!) they tend to test for a lot more (over-test?!) and treat a lot more liberally rather than in the uk based on the evidence (and conservative estimates generally!)

Anyway....hope the op's DS feels better soon. And that all the 'unloved' feeling GPs know that we appreciate them all too - sterling job in hard circumstances.