to agree It is pensioners, rather than the rich, who are growing richer.

[marryj]

From someone at institute of fiscal studies -www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7276

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/53a4b2fa-0b69-11e4-9e55-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3LFCf5Gay

From what I see, each year there is a widening generation inequality. Many studies have shown since the coalition came in the young are far worse of but pensioners have never been richer.

The generation with the highest income is now pensioners, despite them having significantly less outgoings as no young children to raise and for most they have paid off their mortgage. Things are very bleak in the job market with graduates with 30k+ of debt taking nmw jobs and only 20% are likely to get out of nmw after 10 years.

My father is still working all hours at 74. Not to make him rich but to keep a roof over their heads.

I wish he was rich as it'd stop him trying to tap myself and dh up for money. He still owes us £3.5k from 18 months ago but still needs/wants more.

They've been in their house 30 years, should be paid off but I suspect he's remortgaged more than once.

This sounds awful but if he passes away before my dm, she is going to be shocked at his financial woes. She has no idea we have been lending to him.

'The better off ones do tend to help out their adult children and grandchildren. So the money does filter down.'

Not all. And they only help their families. Not society. Society has to pay disproportionatly large amounts in housing, sometimes to wealthy pensioner landlords. That's a bit of an 'im alright Jack' attitude isn't it?

'Why should an older person feel obliged to give up a home they have worked for just because it is large?'

Because they should never have been allowed to invest in a utility ie housing in the first place (I do appreciate there was little choice for an average income earner though, but I feel that wasn't questioned, politically enough over the past 50 years and it is not good enough to announce 'im alright Jack' see above)

Also, in my experience, these same people will slate companies mooring oil tankers off the coast of Kent for refusing to dock until the price of oil goes up. Will criticise supermarkets for profiteering. But when it is simply a large proportion of a buyer's salary for the next 25 years for a home for their family? Well anything is game isn't it.

The morality of that simply isn't questioned enough.

My nan lives is a large house with land alone. She is comfortably off thanks to my grandad working hard in a well paid job, this job was also the source of his asbestosis which he died from at 73. My nan would rather have a less nice house and my grandad still alive.
I work for an age related charity and the reality is care is very expensive and pensioners are extremely aware of this. Many of those that are well off are financially helping younger members of the family too.

Utter horseshit. Too tired to look up the reference now but a couple of years ago the top 1% had 41% of the wealth, and they reckon by 2020 they'll own near as dammit 100% of it.

ethelb why should they 'not have been allowed to invest' in housing? Not be allowed??? Why?

I agree that it's totally untrue to say a lot of women in their 60's have never worked. I hardly know any women who haven't ever worked. I think I know of only one.

Bowchick so wouldn't it be easier if they didn't need to help younger members of the family if housing were more affordable?

I'm really not trying to slate older people here, I honestly can't see a way that an average income earner, now a pensioner, had many financil choices. But it is swings and round abouts isn't it?

Maybe if housing were made more affordable by reducing under occupation younger family members may be able to contribute more to, admittedly, crippling care costs for their relatives?

As an aside, I have a very wealthy friend my age who refuses to over occupy a house, though they could afford to, as she thinks it is immoral. Why does this sense of disgust over housing wastage not extend to older generations? Is it simply a generational difference? In which case could that ever be changed?

@indigo for the same reasons people battled against the privatisation of utilities including energy, transport and telecoms. Many of those same people who now own property that has turned into an investment, even if they only ever did want to have their own home.

So who should own the housing then ethelb?

I do not think the thread is decisive, but I do thin that there is alack of understanding from the older generation as to how the job and housing market has changed

This is a horrible thread. Blaming older people for being wealthy - and the blanket assertion that all pensioners are wealthy - is outrageous.

Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. And ethel - I hope you're not a journalist on the financial or business pages . The level of ignorance you display is truly shocking.

There is indeed a change in the pattern of poverty. Pensioner poverty used to be a big problem, now younger people tend to be poorer.
However the majority of pensioners are not rich.

The only people growing richer are those in the top 3% of the income distribution.
Whilst young people are looking at older people who may be slightly more financially secure on average they are not seeing this wide unfairness and injustice.
Oh, by the way most women in their 60s have worked outside the home fot the great majority of their lives.

Would people really want to see pensioners struggle to heat their homes -would it make them feel better about their own situation.
Look wider to the great unfairness in the distribution of wealth overall.

Tron there is also a huge lack of understanding on the part of the younger generations about what our parents generation and older ones went without while they were saving up to get on the housing ladder. The refusal to see the point of view of the other group goes both ways.

Regulated companies/housing association ideally. Private ownership could still be an option, but needs to be owned for housing purposes not for investment purposes.

I feel people are very narrow minded in this country. Property ownership should not be the only option for being able to afford a retirement. There are many countries where property ownership is not the only option if you don't want an impoverished retirement. Pensioners as well as 'younger people' would benefit from that scenario to, no?

More affordable housing now for me would mean that I would be able to save more towards a retirement. I would need to save less for retirement as a non-property owner if rents were regulated and I could realistically prepare for a retirement renting. It would also mean current pensioners who aren't property owners would be able to afford a higher standard of living if all of their meagre pensions didn't go on housing.

My savings account stands at 83p now I have done my Christmas shopping. We owe about £250 on a credit card but no other debts. Our dc are adults, all married, working, home-owners and parents ( we have 5 dc ).
We have no money but we are indeed rich :)

What do I not understand then BIWI?

Tron-the older generation are only too aware of how the job and housing market has changed-we have children and grandchildren and we worry about them.

Power has swung right away from the employee-we know this.
We are not all sitting smugly in our now paid for houses and not caring.

IN my late 20s when my kids were small I can remember juggling between food and fuel-although I do recognize that as a baby boomer I was part of a fortunate generation.

Regulated companies - regulated by who?? So all housing should be government owned? Okay....

You do realise don't you that all these home owning pensioners that you are so aggrieved with, only bought their house so they could have a home? Because the way you are talking I'm not sure you grasp that.

In terms of saving for your own retirement, I bet there are things you buy and consume every week which most pensioners wouldn't have dreamed of having because it was too expensive/extravagant.

Maybe there is lack of understanding on both sides, but the media certainly come down claiming it the young who lack compassion and I do not think this is always the case - mor 50/50.
As for the thread being dreadful, I just wonder had this been berating younger people or those in other age catogaries whether that would have been raised

It is very hard for young people these days; I look at my highly qualified, university educated children in good jobs and worry that they will never be able to afford to buy property. I see them sending £1500 a month to rent a one bed flat. However, my parents were only able to afford to buy their house by depriving themselves of things to an extent which my DC would not think reasonable. No nights out, or meals out ever. Few new clothes, furniture and floor coverings more or less expected to last for life; no drinking or smoking, except for two pints on a Saturday for my Dad. One family holiday - a week in a 'flatlet', ie one room, in Rhyl in my entire childhood. I for one would not begrudge these people a little comfort and a feeling of being 'well off' in their old age.

When we bought our house, our mortgage was a massive proportion of our monthly income.

But over the years, our salaries went up and house prices went up.

We're now in a position where, with only a couple of years to go until our mortgage is paid off, our mortgage payments are relatively small and our equity is large.

There's nothing unusual about this.

The same thing will happen to you when you buy a property as well

There's nothing sinister about this. The markets haven't been rigged in any way it's just how it is.

And you will benefit in exactly the same way as we have

Why should pensioners move to somewhere smaller?
That's as ridiculous as saying people with only one child should have to swap their 4 bed house with a couple who have 3 dc and live in a 2 bed.

If an old person chooses to live in their big family house, which they have bought and are happy in - up to them when/if they sell it. We have a large family house, we love it here and this location. I doubt we will ever downsize. Plus we will hope to have a good asset to leave to our dc.

@alibaba I don't want to get drawn into this as I have already addressed your points.

I have stated repeatedly that I acknowlege that many pensioners bought their homes as homes and not necessarily as investments and that average income earners have had few other options than home ownership if they wanted to be able to afford a retirement. I'm not going to ignore the problem this has caused though.

I have stated I think the issue is that yes I have affordable luxury, but unaffordable utility. But would prefer what my grandparents had which was unaffordable luxury but affordable utility.

But hey what is the point, its not like you are actually going to read my posts.

I think ethelb is trying to turn it into a thread about the housing market; she thinks everyone should rent from a Housing Association!

If you manage to become a home owner (doing two jobs, never spending any money, living with parents, not starting a family before you own a home) then by the time you are a pensioner you will be well off, no childcare costs, no family to feed, none of the many costs of a young family, no mortgage to pay.

It will be the same for most home owners.