to resent indoctrination through the medium of candy canes?

[MillionToOneChances]

The children came out of the infants school today gleefully waving candy canes. It transpired they'd been handed out by the local vicar and, as I was solemnly informed, the red stripe is the blood of Jesus, the white stripe is the soul of Jesus and the green stripe represents the Christmas tree. I was torn between eye-rolling and surreptitious belly laughs. The children took it as the gospel truth. AIBU to think they're pushing the indoctrination a bit hard, with a side order of bribery?

As one of my clients said when I related this at collection, "it's meant to be a non-denominational school... and don't forget [6 year old son], we're JEWISH!"

You missed that the sweetness is to represent the sweetness of God's love for us and that the shape is to represent both a shepherds crook and a j for Jesus, the green is to symbolize Holly which in turn symbolises Christ's crown of thorns, its sharp, pointed leaves representing His wounds.

Not only did the vicar try to use candy canes to convert children but he missed out half the message.

I don't think I'd see the funny side.

I'm a bit confused at why it's insensitive to talk about God to a Jewish person? They do believe in God after all, and they're religious. But maybe I'm just being completely thick and missing the point tonight

Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of God.

What does the word Christmas mean? Is it anything to do with Christ? When we give our own family presents and say Happy Christmas are we trying to bribe them to believe in something?

Fairenuff- it comes from Christ's Mass - the mass that was held to celebrate birth of Christ.

faire the gifts and the tree are pagan. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to abstain just because Christians changed Jesus's birthday to hijack a popular day.

I'd have been mightily pissed off at a vicar spouting this nonsense to a child.

Even if I were a Christian, I think I'd find it offensive - mixing up the pagan Christmas tree with the religious element, not to mention using something as materialistic as a candy cane as a spiritual symbol.

Actually, it sounds so ludicrous that I'm a bit gobsmacked really at the idea that a vicar would really do this.

Christian 'meanings' have been attached to a lot of mid-winter festival traditions as it easier to adapt a popular tradition than stamp it out (Oliver Cromwell??). A lot of these pagan traditions didn't have a common meaning either and similar practices (eg. Midwinter greenery) are common to a range of pagan beliefs across Northern Europe. Christmas trees as we know them came from Germany.

As a Christian, I am happy with some things (eg. trees, holly) as they are reminders for me of aspects of my religion through the message we/the church have attached to them. Other things I avoid, eg. I will eat a chocolate representation of a Yule log but I won't celebrate bringing one in or having it on the fire. But actually the worst bit of Christmas for me is the gross commercialisation and activity which takes away the opportunity for quietness and awe.

I agree about commercialisation. I like the idea of time at Christmas to be with family and friends. A bit of relaxation and fun. These day's it's become a bit obsessive with people making themselves ill and getting in debt trying to make Christmas perfect.

If some like to go to church at Christmas to celebrate their own things that's perfectly fine. It's for anyone and everyone.

I don't know what Muslims do at Christmas, but if they get time off I expect they enjoy the time with family too.

I do find the Vicar's behaviour to be odd and somewhat offensive. Though I'm sure it went right over the heads of the kids who just saw the sweets.

I'm a Christian and have never heard of this before. Maybe the Vicar had run out of Christingles so used Candy canes instead?

if you will allow a pagan to weigh in here with a bible reference - Jeremiah 10 verses 1-5

"This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.""

bearing that in mind, I'd be quite surprised the minister used christmas trees for the green tbh. When I was christian I would have said it could represent the thorns from the crown.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about Candy canes

Apparently their first purpose was to keep kids quiet

Very sensible :)

I can see where you're coming from but it wouldn't be annoyed tbh. He was explaining symbolism (at least what they symbolised to him?), not forcing them to repent and believe.

miaow your DD sounds dangerously brimming with initiative

I was irritated rather than annoyed. Spouting such nonsense so persuasively and focussing the children's minds with shiny sweeties. These are smart 6 year olds, but 6 year olds nonetheless. And if the year twos couldn't spot that it was utter bobbins, one can only assume the younger kids were similarly bamboozled.

I told my dh about this and he laughed. He suggests a big packet of Liquorice Allsorts to show the children that God loves black people too!

Did you know that the red on the pole seen outside barber's shops signifies blood from the time when barbers were known as 'barber surgeons' and carried out the odd appendectomy and bit of leeching in between beard trims.

Not as tasty as a candy cane though.

Oh someone already mentioned that!

Hates, surely it should be poppets or something similarly random to show God loves everyone...?

So basically. God rots your teeth?

Hell

Bring on the day when the National Secular Society and the Humanist Society have trained up enough people to go into schools and do assemblies. I expect children to be enthralled by their solemn homilies about the wonders of science and the powers of critical thinking, and about how great it is that when we die we just die.

And when they have tried that, I expect they will move on to the stage of toe-curling down with the kidz assembly talks. And after that they will try sweets to get their message across.

But it won't be indoctrination, oh no.

That's totally where I'm heading

niminy cheer up.

There's no need to replace the religious part of assemblies with anything at all. They can just be the school news or whatever they do now after they finish the religious bit.

Secular doesn't mean atheist remember. Lots of Christians are Secularist.