AIBU to think a simple Christmas doesn't mean spending £££?

[Santaisinmystockings]

There is a woman who comes to my toddler group with her 2 DC. She is nice enough, though a bit woo, very into Steiner etc- she has an older DC who is at the school already

Obviously we've all recently been chatting about Christmas and what we are going to get for our DC. Woo lady has been talking quite a bit about what a simple, natural Christmas they will have- the DC will have a handful of toys each, they will have a Season Tree instead of a fir, then a vegan Christmas dinner, and a long walk in the woods. Apparently this is because they don't want their children to be little consumers, etc etc.

I thought it sounded very nice, especially as there is so much spending and competitive buying these days.

Anyway, she was telling us that she was going to buy a Waldorf doll for each of her DC, they have a few already and play with them loads, etc etc. She got the website up on her phone, and these dolls are nearly £100 each! The wooden animals she is getting them are about £20 a piece! there was other stuff too, all nice wooden toys but seriously pricey

AIBU to be surprised at this? Obviously they have the money, and if that's what the DC like, then there's nothing wrong with that (and the dolls are sweet) but my DC are lucky if they get £50 each spent on them! Yet I was wondering if I was raising them to be little consumer drones, because I was buying plastic Peppa Pig toys!

Looks like I couldn't afford a simple Christmas even if I wanted one!

Your supposed to make your own doll! You just need some old wool tights and some something to stuff the doll with. The wooden animals are very expensive, grandma buys those for my dc.

You can have a simple Steiner Christmas, ds1 will be getting some painted pasta and acorns for his toy kitchen.

YANBU. You have the right to have whatever Christmas you and your partner want. I don't know why we choose to compare ourselves to the Jones' and why we fear judgement of others.

So long as your family is together and your children are happy, WGAF what anyone else thinks?

I want a waldorf doll!!

You can have open ended imaginative play with any doll. It doesn't have to be one that Islington parents would approve of (and conspicuously but not obviously) leave for guests to see in their Georgian townhouses.

You can have open ended imaginative play with a wooden spoon!

There's an element of the Emperor's new clothes about buying some of these toys. And it's often far more about the parents than the children.

You appear to be equating materialistic with spending money. Which is a valid way of doing it, but not the only way. Materialism can also be seen as valuing the physical quantity over less physical factors like the craftsmanship or ethical status of goods.

Spending £100 on a handmade doll where the person who makes it gets enough money to live a reasonable lifestyle and the externalised costs are minimal compared to spending it on lots of plastic or electronic toys where the people who make it will likely be being exploited and the externalised costs in terms of things like damage to the environent will be being paid by others for a long time to come.

You can get more goods for your £100 if you go the second way and so the first way can be seen as less materialistic, even though it's still £100.

santaisinmystockings I think you're just confused, if the kids and parents like the dolls and can afford buy them, perhaps they got a deal such that they only cost 50 quid too, or perhaps they got helped out by others, or perhaps they just have a bit more spare cash than you.

Their choices are fine, it's got nothing to do with imaginative play or materialism or anything like that, they're just toys, and it's just Christmas.

There is a certain kind of simple that's not cheap. In my experience these kind of Steiner parents usually have plenty of money and it's a different kind of consumerism.

You can buy a Waldorf doll here from £24.99 if you get a smaller one

www.myriadonline.co.uk/waldorf-dolls-including-kathe-kruse-dolls.php

The think is a simpler lifestyle often involves buy less of everything so many have more money saved towards a few particular items.

Ie we have friends who's children have entire chest of drawers plus wardrobe each full of clothes. Ours have x2 drawers. So in the end if they spend say £10 on jumper and buy x10 that's £100. We are more likely to buy just x2 jumpers at £50 each. So cost is the same in the end

Ds's actually wear many clothes that belonged to dh as a child, as mil brought select pieces but very well made. So I'm sure they cost her more at the time for dh, but then his x2 siblings wore, and now our children wear, so very cost effective

Like stripy said, you can do the whole open ended play on much smaller budget. My bargain quality toys from years past have been home made scented play dough, Aldi creative blocks, sewing, cooking and gardening tools,nice paper and really good beeswax crayons which cost a lot less than the square Steiner ones. Less of a bargain, but I dyed some playsilks when DS was one. It cost around £50 in total and my dad thought I was crazy for dyeing a load of big silk squares, but 4 years later he admits they are the best toy the children have.

I'm quite a lot cheaper than Artandco, as my children grow so quickly that they grow out of things before they wear out so their two drawers of clothes are mostly filled with H&M bargains.

I quite like the sound of her Christmas!

The amount of plastic tat and the consumerism of it all does depress me. And as for black Friday...

But I know what you mean in that to conform with people of her ilk, you need to spend x amount on x approved ethical toy / clothing / lifestyle which is not feasible for many people.

But I know what you mean in that to conform with people of her ilk, you need to spend x amount on x approved ethical toy / clothing / lifestyle which is not feasible for many people.

You really don't have to spend lots of money at all! In my experience the sort of people who choose this sort of lifestyle are not very bothered by what other people do or don't spend on their dc.

How can you eat organically, buy fairtrade clothes, ethically sourced toys etc without spending more than people who don't? It's cheaper to shop in asda and primark, isn't it?

I do think that most people who subscribe to this kind of lifestyle are well off and don't have much concept of how most people have limited choices when it comes to what they buy

your post makes me laugh, preaching to you about an ethical simple xmas then spending a fortune on items, but you will find lots of this type of thing on mn.

you have come to right place, people critising others lists then coming out with " I have only got mine three gifts, latest i pad ( 5 YEAR OLD) X BOX, AND A DS." you know, i have only got the three gifts.....but what a dreadful plastic pile you have.
this is why we must take posters with a pinch of salt...

Wd41 - eat organically, many people who want this lifestyle grow large amount of own food. Therefore they buy much less in supermarket. Fair trade clothes - those people aren't buying new clothes every year according to fashion, only when needed. Eco toys - yes you can buy Waldorf dolls etc, but most recycled/ handmade themselves so not as expensive. Many passed down through generations, and not that many toys.

Ds's favorite 'toy' is a dolls/ knights/ house. My father painted up an old cupboard and added shelves and stairs and wooden partitions to make a dolls house for them for ds1 first birthday. He's nearly 5 now and him and ds2 play with it most days. It has dolls men/ Lego men/ stick men/ knights/ animals etc in and changes use over time. I love it as it blends in with adult furniture when doors closed but playful inside. It cost about £20 to add paint/ wood inside etc.

Quite often Steiner schools have links to biodynamic farms where you can buy food direct from the farmer so not too expensive, clothes could be handmade and you don't need many clothes. My dc wear lots of knitted clothes that I buy from second hand shops, obviously that isn't going to be an option forever but for now it's a very cheap way of dressing them.

You can choose to spend lots of money on toys if you want but you can also make toys or use things you find in nature as toys. Dc have my Steiner doll, it's aged well.

I think that often them amount of money a family spends on their dc at Christmas is not driven by how much spare money they have, the people I know who spend the most on their dc at Christmas tend to be the people with the least disposable income, it's about where you priorities your spending, it's quite possible to grow your own organic veg and avoid eating meat, make your own clothes or buy second hand clothes and buy your dc a few expensive toys but not own a car or tv or computer. I don't live a simple lifestyle, we have a tv and my dc will be getting an array of bright plastic tat toys along side their lovely simple toys but I can see that living simply can be done on a budget if you buy second hand/locally/grow or make your own.

If you are really poor, then it's a lot harder to live that kind of life, because its harder to get access to cheap ethical stuff when you dont have access to richer people's cast-offs or have the money to buy a more expensive thing which gives better value in the long term, and it can be hard finding storage space for things like bulk purchases or taking advantage of the chance to buy something that you know you will need in the future rather than when the need becomes pressing.

But that kind of "simple living" works out pretty cheaply overall. Pulses are cheaper than meat, clothes from a charity shop or hand me downs are cheaper than new, cycling plus public transport is cheaper than owning a car, having friends round for a meal is cheaper than eating out, a walk through the woods is cheaper than a trip to the christmas wonderland etc.

Those toys are pretty expensive, but the people who buy them tend to buy very few toys.

DP and I live a fairly simple life coming at thibgs from different perspectives. I like beautiful stuff, but am fairly environmentally conscious. DP doesn't give a shit about aesthetics, and the environment isn't very high on his list of priorities, but he is staggeringly frugal. That kind of simple lifestyle is a good balance between having a nice life and spending as little as possible, and it turns out to be a pretty ethical way of living, too.

That's approaching it from a rather affluent viewpoint though.

Not all people are able to grow large amounts of their own food - how do you do that if you live in a flat for example with no outdoor space? People who grow their own food and keep chickens usually live in big houses with big gardens.

It may well work out better in the long term to buy £50 fairtrade jumpers for your children, but a lot of people don't have £50 lying around in any given month so they buy an £8 one from Primark.

I see a lot about buying stuff from charity shops but again suspect those people are visiting charity shops in naice areas - visit one in a deprived area and it's full of tat, because those who donated bought cheaply in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking this Steiner kind of lifestyle - I think it's a great way to bring up your children with good values. But there's a good reason it's largely the preserve of the middle classes. Money.

Wd40 - I live in a flat in London so no we personally don't grow everything. But If I look at friends who live near where I grew up many do have large gardens even in low income housing as there's cheaper land I suppose . So no it wouldn't be economical for everyone, but many people could choose ops friends style of living if they wanted

The people I know who grow their own food have allotments, not gardens.

Like I said, you probably can't afford it if you are really poor, but most of the people I know who live like that have a family income well below the national average (Factory workers, retail and catering workers, part time music tutors, teaching assistants etc).

Basically, it's a middle class lifestyle that doesn't need a middle class income.

I think it is very easy to have this Steineresque attitude when you are in a privileged financial position.

For those families and kids from working class backgrounds living on the breadline having years of make do and mend plating with some wooden sticks or squares of fabric does not have the same allure or novelty as it does to middle class backgrounds.

The idea of simplifying and getting back to basics does not have the same appeal as it may do to families who choose this ethos rather than those who have limited choices..
Having a sack full of fun cheap sparkly toys may be just what a child needs after a year of living on the breadline.

I think there are some very arrogant views on this thread.

I grew up in grinding poverty- my parents did their best but I can assure you if I have been given the choice of a plastic glittery toy or a doll made out of a wooden clothespeg there would have been no contest.

Unless you have been in the situation of such poverty you really have no idea.

I grew up in a sort of steineresque poverty (lone parent on benefits) where we couldn't afford meat or heating or new clothes or more than a pair of school shoes and wellies, and books came from the library, and toys were second hand or hand made and we got help from charities for winter coats and shoes and food sometimes and we went to the park or the museum for fun and we all huddled together under the blankets for warmth in winter.

It was utterly grim for my mother, but while my sister and I suffered the health effects of living in a cold damp house, we actually had very nice childhoods, with good food, lots of fun, and plenty to do.

Our circumstances did change for the better before I reached my teens, though. I think it's a lot harder to bring up a teenager in that sort of environment.

I did actually have a doll made from a wooden clothes peg. I called her Peggy and made clothes for her.