To think cyclists should allow cars to overtake them?

[Twitterqueen]

If you're cycling and you know a car is behind you and wants to overtake, should you let them / facilitate the overtake or deliberately refuse and shout 'wait' at the car? When the road ahead is straight and clear for well over half a mile, when the car has been patiently waiting for a safe, straight stretch, there is no other traffic but the road is just that little bit too narrow for the car to want to do it without some kind of affirmation from the cyclist, ie stop pedaling for a few seconds and move a bit closer into the side of the road?

So how about we get 50 car drivers to turn into cyclists instead?

I'm not talking about car drivers I'm talking about the fact that a cyclist upthread said they refused to get on a tube or a bus. If everyone on public transport did the same and got on bikes you would see gridlock very quickly. The utopian dream of cycling everywhere for everyone might work in Holland and small cities like Cambridge but it just doesn't in London.

Cars have been choked out of London for some time now through the congestion charge and parking restrictions. The only ones who drive through London now do it because they have to or because they live there and have a right to own a car.

For your bedtime reading Willko could I suggest the Mayors vision for Cycling. It starts with the words "Imagine if we could invent something that could cut road and rail crowding, cut noise, cut pollution...".

If only eh? Oh, sorry, we already have. That'll be the bike then. 400 million quid of investment over the next three years to try and get more Londoners on their bikes.

It's enough to keep you awake at night.

I have looked at that actually (sadly) but it's really 400 million quid to keep bikes in lanes and not darting about holding up other modes of transport (and getting themselves killed in the process).

I thoroughly agree we need better facilities for cycling, preferably segregated, but if the 3 million or so public transport users got off the tube and used them they would be very clogged up.

Let's face it 50 bus passengers aren't all going to magic into cyclists are they? A huge number of women are too bloody scared to cycle in London, just read some of the stories on this thread. No mode of transport is ever going to dominate. The skill is getting them to work together. Chucking me on the tube is just going to piss someone else off on an overcrowded northern line train. Congestion in London is an entirely separate issue that has nothing to do with cyclists.

Pan and MissDuke you miss the point.
I specifically said, IME, which means In My Experience. That is not a sweeping generalisation. That is a statement of fact about my experiences. You cannot dispute this because you have not had the same experiences as me.

And again, posters are missing the point about my so-called impatience. If you read my OP and subsequent posts I have said time and time again that I was not impatient at the time. What I am impatient about is the sheer stupidity and entitlement of some posters here.

I notice WilkommenBienevue you refer to cyclists "getting themselves killed". So, never the fault of the car or lorry that squishes them then? Their own damn faults for daring to be on the road that should belong to the mighty car.

That's right backinthering, absolutely their fault for having the audacity to get on a bike and legally use the road. They were obviously asking for it. That'll be someone's wife, sister, daughter. Statistically, as a woman, you are more likely to get squished. Still, at least we can be clear about who's fault it is.

I've been hit by a car. The twat was rummaging in his glove compartment and not looking at the road. Luckily it was slow speed, but I had nowhere to go - sandwiched between him and parked car - so I couldn't get out of the way.

Now I get it - I shouldn't have been on the road at all!!! Silly me!

The potential risk of getting 'squished' as you put it is precisely what puts me off cycling in London. I want to be there to see my children growing up thanks. That and the stress it causes, I just find it stressful and unpleasant and the cyclists on this thread clearly do. It's now become stressful and unpleasant to drive due to the high risk of squishing someone else.

Even in the countryside it's not pleasant because you never know when a car is coming round the next bend. I just don't bother and stick to off road opportunities and leisure cycling. When I'm old and nobody needs me any more I might take it up again.

However you put it, it's dangerous to have unprotected people using the same road at the same time as people in big metal boxes - whether buses, trucks, vans (which mostly occupy London's roads). Unless they have very clear lanes that are solely for their use, which there isn't space for in London and unless you flatten a few buildings there never will be.

So I say they should be using buses in London and costs should be much much lower and the central zone widened so there is no advantage to living in the central zone. That way people can cycle to the appropriate tube station in outer (and encourage better cycle lanes in the suburbs) and use public transport the rest of the way at a reasonable cost.

If zones 1-3 were one price that should do it as outside zone 3 the roads are much wider and can accommodate dedicated cycle lanes.

"It's now become stressful and unpleasant to drive due to the high risk of squishing someone else."

Yes, when you get into a car you should be aware that you are driving about a tonne of steel around and if you hit someone, particularly a bike, pedestrian or horse, there is a reasonable chance that they will be seriously hurt or killed. I'd be glad if people were more aware of this, even if it is 'stressful'.

In London cyclists have a nasty habit of riding up the inside of lorries and buses. Yes cyclists are always getting squished in London and that's why. For goodness sake wait behind them. If you are already at a junction, the lorry comes up alongside, forgets you are there and squishes you, that's different and tragic. But don't deliberately put yourself in their blind spot. Of course the drivers should take more care and check mirrors etc, but you should also take responsibility for your own safety. Equally, if there is an safe, off-road cycle path, use it. Don't cycle on a 50mph dual carriageway with all the metal boxes on wheels (I am particularly thinking of the A24 in Dorking in Surrey which has segregated good quality cycle paths).

As for the "primary position" - this makes perfect sense if you are avoiding potholes, broken glass etc. However, if you think you know better than me when it is safe for me to overtake, you don't. I will make that decision for myself, just as I will ignore the impatient driver behind me who's getting fed up with me because they would have overtaken on a blind corner or when someone was coming the other way and I decided that was a stupid thing to do.

If you want to learn more about cycling safely, the book Cyclecraft is quite enlightening - I bought it when my son was doing his bikeability earlier this year.

If you find it stressful to look out for vulnerable road users, I suggest you stop driving as it's clearly not for you.

NRTFT but the slower traveller always has right of way over the faster so I don't think it's unacceptable for a cyclist to tell a car to stop. Bit arrogant really to assume the driver has that right

So I say they should be using buses in London and costs should be much much lower and the central zone widened so there is no advantage to living in the central zone. That way people can cycle to the appropriate tube station in outer (and encourage better cycle lanes in the suburbs) and use public transport the rest of the way at a reasonable cost.

How about people using their cars much less generally?

Or...we have a dedicated car lane, you know, just so we can keep an eye on the drivers. And when the queuein g gets really bad, people wil lchoose another method of transprt rather than this insane 'commute by car one'.

It was rather disappointing to see the govt is spending a further £1.5 bn on road 'improvement' - which simply means more traffic on wider roads.

And we are the species with the biggest brains?

I don't find cycling stressful and unpleasant. Quite the reverse. It's one of the things I love. It allows me to fit exercise into a hectic schedule, to clear my head after a day at work, and to spend a bit of time each day outdoors. I do find being squished on a tube or bus incredibly unpleasant and stressful. Ditto sitting in a stationary car in central London traffic.

I also want to stay alive to see my children grow up, so we do have something in common Willko. I have my own rules which involve cycling legally, giving HGV's a wide berth, never undertaking, never jumping reds, wearing enough hi-viz to be visible from space, etc. Of course there is a risk associated with cycling, just as there is when you get into a car, walk down the street, or do any number of everyday things.

I'm afraid the outer London master plan of cycling to tube stations is flawed. The busiest part of my journey is along the A2 in outer London. there is certainly no room there for adding a cycle lane there unless they bulldoze a few houses.

Yes, riding into work is my first choice, over car or train. It's so much better and much much much much less stressful than driving. I do though convince myself that I am just going out for a bike ride, albeit at odd times of the day and in circs which you wouldn't ordinarily do it.
The French have two words here - bicyclette and velo. I may look a bit velo, but in my head I am def. bicyclette. If I could strap a basket on the front I would.

And it's better for you too. A CTC study this year had some interesting stats which I'll trot out:

Not cycling is more risky than cycling.
Cyclists on average live two years longer than non-cyclists.
There is one death every 32 million kilometres (that's 800 times around the world).
Every cycle trip that is a switch from car use means fewer injuries and deaths to others.

What's not to like?

The wind.

Rain I don't care about really. I've been blessed with water-proof skin. And you get soaked once.

Wind will punish you ALL fecking day. Bastard.

Pan a car takes up the space of two bikes, that's all. Many cars have many more people in them. Bikes might have a baby on the back but that's about it.

If everyone was like you and cycled because it's better for THEM then London would be gridlocked.

And it's only better for you until you get squished. Good luck with that.

The A2 is part of the circular - that's where you could park at one of the many stations around it and get on a train. :)

That's not all, you have completely discounted that 1) cars need to be parked and so take up room on roads and in car parks that could be used more effectively. 2) that you can actually easily fit about four bikes in the space of one car 3)Many cars may have two people in them but I'd say at least as many have one person in it. 4)When not in stop/start traffic cars need more space between them because they are travelling faster

Willko, you talk a lot of crap. Stats are stats, but I see you have your own agenda which has nothing to do with congestion. Good luck with getting squished? Words fail me.

Safe cycling Pan.

Well you keep banging on about the health benefits - I think it's a bit of a double edged sword. Be at peak fitness and then someone squishes you. OK then...

There are a million other ways to keep fit - including walking or running part of your journey into work.

I don't have an agenda apart from wanting London to be a safe and healthy place to live and everything runs smoothly for EVERYONE. I have nothing against cycling within cycle lanes but London doesn't have enough of them and people should be encouraged onto public transport not private (which is what bikes are).

Anyone who drives in central London knows that there are hardly any private cars there any more. It's work vehicles and those who are in private cars are probably only there because they have to be.

And in terms of congestion one car takes up the space of two bikes and a car can hold upwards of 5 people.

Cycling as a sport or leisure activity is another thing entirely - I'm just talking about commuting on bikes in London in case people start to believe that I'm one of those anti-bike car drivers.

I have no agenda, really never thought about this (much) before but all this anti-car talk has got me thinking, the problem really isn't cars at all, it's PEOPLE not using public transport.